Not quite me dear, not quite.
There are still some nice folks around, you just need to look in the right places for them.
Sometimes they're are right in front of your nose and you wouldn't know it unless you knew them.
Cindy

sorry katrina.  i guess it's just me...but calling folks like "crap" and "insane" and such is not just rational...it's derogatory.  maybe that's just the way i understand the language.  when i insult people for being who they are it's generally a function of my anger, when i'm just talking i usually don't insult anyone.

i read your posts completely and yes, i understood what you were saying from my perspective, and i responded likewise.  if you think one doesn't have to be a woman to be a lesbian, so be it...think that way.  you said clearly..."i figured out i was a lesbian before i figured out i was a woman."  frankly, that's a little delusional.  a lesbian is by definition a woman, so if you aren't convinced you are a woman then, by definition you can't know you are a lesbian. perhaps you are a lesbian and don't know it, but not knowing you're a woman and yet knowing you are a lesbian defies common sense.

perhaps you might re-read your posts and see if i make any sense.  but i'll not argue further.  God bless with...

Quote from: pennyjane on October 24, 2008, 06:58:29 PM
sorry katrina.  i guess it's just me...but calling folks like "crap" and "insane" and such is not just rational...it's derogatory.  maybe that's just the way i understand the language.  when i insult people for being who they are it's generally a function of my anger, when i'm just talking i usually don't insult anyone.

First off, "derogatory" statements have never required anger in order to be said (calling Hitler Insane is not said out of anger). Second, I did not call any particular people "crap." I said that men typically treat each other like crap and are being taught these days, thanks to the more extreme feminists, to treat women like crap as well.

Quotei read your posts completely and yes, i understood what you were saying from my perspective, and i responded likewise.  if you think one doesn't have to be a woman to be a lesbian, so be it...think that way.  you said clearly..."i figured out i was a lesbian before i figured out i was a woman."  frankly, that's a little delusional.  a lesbian is by definition a woman, so if you aren't convinced you are a woman then, by definition you can't know you are a lesbian. perhaps you are a lesbian and don't know it, but not knowing you're a woman and yet knowing you are a lesbian defies common sense.

perhaps you might re-read your posts and see if i make any sense.  but i'll not argue further.  God bless with...

You say you read my posts in their entirety, but your responses tell me you haven't. Did I say one does not have to be a woman to be a lesbian? No. I said I had not yet figured out that I *am* a woman. I have always been a woman, despite my physical configuration. I was just not always *aware* of that fact. There's a big difference between being a woman and being aware you're a woman.

As for figuring out I'm a lesbian, that had as much to do with how I wanted women, how I thought about women, and how I wanted to be with a woman. While the basic desire "sex with females" is the same as heterosexual males, it was filtered through the mind and mental state of a woman, not of a man. Not to get too graphic with this, but I never really had a desire to penetrate a woman. I'd think about it at times, but that was more because I'd been taught that's what I was supposed to do. I always viewed that particular act with a certain amount of detachment. The various times I was intimate with a woman, I never even suggested going that far because I was happy (as was she) with just doing the only things a lesbian can do for her partner without a toy. At first, I figured it was just my Christian upbringing teaching me abstinence that had me holding back like that; but then I realized it was easy for me to hold to a promise of "abstinence" because I didn't have a desire to *penetrate* a woman. I just wanted to do all the highly sensual things lesbian couples can do that don't require toys (not that I would object to using toys, too XP). At this time, though I did have strong desires to become a woman, I did not yet understand that I *am* a woman. I wasn't familiar with terms like transsexual or transgender either, and considered sex change to be little more than a novel fantasy. Now that I know I *am* a woman and that I have *always* been a woman, sex change is a necessity, not just a novel fantasy.

Thanks to being raised male, i can park a car.

Quote from: Rachael on October 27, 2008, 06:18:29 AM
Thanks to being raised male, i can park a car.

And from the "wrong" side too 

I can't parallel park worth a damn.

Z

ah but its the right side of the road....

Yea and how to back up a car to, I use to be able to park back-wards in any parking space easier then forward. Now I don't drive at all since that I totaled my van in North Carolina 3 years ago. Just don't have the nerve anymore especially in city driving.

Cindy 

Quote from: Princess Katrina on October 24, 2008, 10:30:41 PMI said that men typically treat each other like crap and are being taught these days, thanks to the more extreme feminists, to treat women like crap as well.

Hi Katrina,

That was a really good post altogether, but I'd have to say I disagree with the way you said this part. If certain men treat people badly, it's because they are jerks, not because of something the "extreme feminists" did. Treating people with basic human respect isn't a matter of gender -- it's a metter of basic human decency.

The problem is that sometimes we use gender, race, religion, age, or any number of other ways in which we can categorize people as "other" as an excuse to treat people badly. And some people are just mean, irrespective of arbitrary categories.

~Alyssa

Quote from: Zythyra on October 27, 2008, 06:24:43 AM
I can't parallel park worth a damn.

I can usually do a decent job of it -- my wife taught me.

  Nfr

I have this really big truck... I can hardly park it straight in most parking lots.  I bought it for my business.  Now that the business is tanking, I may as well keep it.  I just wish it got better mileage.

Cindi

Quote from: Nero on October 16, 2008, 05:11:37 PM
Evening dolls.

I was wondering about something. Do you think your background (being raised as male, treated as male, etc) has helped you in areas women typically struggle with?

For instance, a lot of women struggle with assertiveness and to some degree this is enforced by the 'proper feminine decorum' police. Assertive or confrontational women are often labeled bitches. So some women shrink back from speaking their mind in order to appear more 'pleasing' to others.

Another typically female struggle is body image and the pervasive belief among young girls and women that one need be pretty and thin to be worth anything. So many women measure their worth by their looks consciously or subconsciously. And if they fall short of the feminine ideal, they need to be working to achieve it.

The above issues and others wreak havoc on women's self image everywhere.
I'm sure there are hundreds of other mostly female struggles. If you can think of them, I'd be grateful.

So do you feel your background has enabled you to escape these female mind traps or are you just as susceptible?

Hey Nero, I am brand new here. I have been wanting to talk you. You look just like someone that I work with. You aren't from Texas are you?
I wanted also to throw in my two cents on your question.

I personally have struggled more because of my background. In those areas that "women" struggle with and in my case I see it as much worse.

I on the other hand am sooooo tired of haveing to live up to a certain standard just because I am perceived as "male". I want to have the opportunity to not be agressive so I won't be thought of as a bitch. Hell I just would like the chance to not be assertive at all just because I am not. The "women" are even permitted to cry.

And the looks oh honey. I was a big "male" and very masculine looking how was I supposed to be pretty and thin and femme?  You see it is double trouble. Not only do we have to deal with those mind games we have to deal with separating ourselves from what we should be able or want to do.

This has kept me from pursuing the real me for some time now and I am sure it affects many ts.
I hope I am making sense. Oh by the way I love being called a doll. Thanks

Quote from: Alyssa M. on October 27, 2008, 01:15:10 PM

Quote from: Princess Katrina on October 24, 2008, 10:30:41 PMI said that men typically treat each other like crap and are being taught these days, thanks to the more extreme feminists, to treat women like crap as well.

Hi Katrina,

That was a really good post altogether, but I'd have to say I disagree with the way you said this part. If certain men treat people badly, it's because they are jerks, not because of something the "extreme feminists" did. Treating people with basic human respect isn't a matter of gender -- it's a metter of basic human decency.

The problem is that sometimes we use gender, race, religion, age, or any number of other ways in which we can categorize people as "other" as an excuse to treat people badly. And some people are just mean, irrespective of arbitrary categories.

~Alyssa

This is true to some extent, but there are "gentlemen" who will treat other men "like crap" (though to them and the buddies they're treating that way, it's "all in good fun, no hard feelings"), but will treat most any woman like a Queen. Polite, civilized, etc. Honestly, I find those men kinda disgusting as well because there is a double standard in the way they act. My thinking, however, is not "If you're gonna be that way with your buddies, be that way to me, too," which is the thinking of the more extremist feminists (I will not say all feminists feel that way). My thinking is "Okay, you're clearly capable of being polite, civilized individuals. Why not behave that way with your buddies, too?"

I mean, sure, everyone is going to be more relaxed around their close buddies than around someone they haven't met before, but that doesn't mean being a total jerk.

Yesterday, I had to read a "Bromance" short story for workshop in my Creative Writing class. It was an incredibly accurate portrayal of the two typical college age males. They were best buds and every other thing they said was a massive insult to the other. At times, one would wonder "These guys are friends?" It made me think of the old saying "With a friend like you, who needs enemies?" However, it was still clear they were best buds and that was acceptable behavior between them. Also, all the guys in my class not only considered it believable, but could relate 100% to the story. I, and a few of the other girls I talked to in class, were frankly rather disgusted with it.

Now, maybe that kind of behavior is hardcoded into the the typical male. Instinctive posturing and competing in order to prove strength and worthiness to mate with the best females, and all that evolution/natural selection crap. Maybe it's something they have to do. I could accept that, but if that's the case, then put the double standard back in, with an exceptionary clause. Any woman who can be "one of the boys" and likes being "one of the boys" (and this is excluding FTMs since FTMs really *are* one of the boys and not just a girl who can fit in with guys while still being very much a female) is welcome to be a part of all that rude, disgusting, comradery banter. Let the rest of us who don't fit in as "one of the boys" receive the polite, civilized treatment.

I mean, seriously, what's so demeaning about being treated like a Lady? There's a huge distinction between being treated like a Lady (particularly if you are a lady) and being discriminated against for being a woman. Besides, while all Ladies are women, not all women are ladies.

Meh, ranting a bit, probably cause of the vicodin. >.>

Posted on: October 29, 2008, 04:16:18 pm

---

Quote from: Rachael on October 27, 2008, 06:18:29 AM
Thanks to being raised male, i can park a car.

I can park, even parallel park, with no trouble whatsoever. My mum taught me. In fact, mum taught me how to drive entirely. Dad taught me absolutely nothing about driving. He made one attempt to teach me how to drive a standard and only succeeded in scaring the hell out of me and traumatizing me so that I'll never drive a standard.

I do try to avoid backing up in any car, though, because of when I backed into another car at church once. >.>;;

Quote from: Princess Katrina on October 29, 2008, 04:18:40 PMI do try to avoid backing up in any car

How do you parallel park without using reverse gear? 

Quote from: Hypatia on October 29, 2008, 10:47:20 PM

Quote from: Princess Katrina on October 29, 2008, 04:18:40 PMI do try to avoid backing up in any car

How do you parallel park without using reverse gear? 

I haven't had to parallel park ever, actually. The only time I've done it is when mum was teaching me how and that was before I traumatized myself by backing into another car (though it wasn't actually entirely my fault I backed into them...they were stopped in the middle of the road to chat with other people and they were in my blind spot).

No, my background has not helped me at all.  If anything it has kept me down.

Quote from: Princess Katrina on October 17, 2008, 11:53:38 AM

Quote from: Nero on October 16, 2008, 05:11:37 PM
Evening dolls.

I was wondering about something. Do you think your background (being raised as male, treated as male, etc) has helped you in areas women typically struggle with?

For instance, a lot of women struggle with assertiveness and to some degree this is enforced by the 'proper feminine decorum' police. Assertive or confrontational women are often labeled bitches. So some women shrink back from speaking their mind in order to appear more 'pleasing' to others.

I've had fairly severe anger management issues (even to the point where I've been known to physically attack someone who angered me enough, though I always pulled my punches so completely that I never hurt anyone, and often didn't even do more than act like I was going to hit them) since about age 7 (and I'll note that my gender dysphoric feelings started a little before that as well, though I didn't understand that's what they were). Aside from that, and to some extent because of that (I was often teased about my anger, especially since my earliest forms of release was just to "scream like a girl" rather than to hit, the hitting things came later after I was forced to supress the urge to scream as a release), I'm an incredibly shy and passive girl. I'll stand up for myself if it becomes necessary, and I'm more inclined to speak up if it's for someone else rather than myself, but I mostly just keep quiet and rather invisible (which is kinda funny since I stand a little over 6' tall). People easily forget I'm there, and I typically will do what I'm told unless I 1) don't comprehend what I've been told to do or 2) find the task/action/whatever so completely appalling that I cannot keep my mouth shut about it.

Katrina, I was wondering if your anger and personality was a cause for your GID or that the opposite was true and the GID was the cause for your anger and personality. I am curious because as I was reading your post I thought that you knew and was describing yours truly.

Quote from: Shellygurl on October 29, 2008, 02:04:15 AM

Quote from: Nero on October 16, 2008, 05:11:37 PM
Evening dolls.

I was wondering about something. Do you think your background (being raised as male, treated as male, etc) has helped you in areas women typically struggle with?

For instance, a lot of women struggle with assertiveness and to some degree this is enforced by the 'proper feminine decorum' police. Assertive or confrontational women are often labeled bitches. So some women shrink back from speaking their mind in order to appear more 'pleasing' to others.

Another typically female struggle is body image and the pervasive belief among young girls and women that one need be pretty and thin to be worth anything. So many women measure their worth by their looks consciously or subconsciously. And if they fall short of the feminine ideal, they need to be working to achieve it.

The above issues and others wreak havoc on women's self image everywhere.
I'm sure there are hundreds of other mostly female struggles. If you can think of them, I'd be grateful.

So do you feel your background has enabled you to escape these female mind traps or are you just as susceptible?

Hey Nero, I am brand new here. I have been wanting to talk you. You look just like someone that I work with. You aren't from Texas are you?
I wanted also to throw in my two cents on your question.

I personally have struggled more because of my background. In those areas that "women" struggle with and in my case I see it as much worse.

I on the other hand am sooooo tired of haveing to live up to a certain standard just because I am perceived as "male". I want to have the opportunity to not be agressive so I won't be thought of as a bitch. Hell I just would like the chance to not be assertive at all just because I am not. The "women" are even permitted to cry.

And the looks oh honey. I was a big "male" and very masculine looking how was I supposed to be pretty and thin and femme?  You see it is double trouble. Not only do we have to deal with those mind games we have to deal with separating ourselves from what we should be able or want to do.

This has kept me from pursuing the real me for some time now and I am sure it affects many ts.
I hope I am making sense. Oh by the way I love being called a doll. Thanks

hi Shelly. nice to meet you. <offers hand> no not in texas, did live in oklahoma for a bit though. 

Hmmm. A bit late to the thread, so I didn't read much of the conversation inbetween, but in answer to Nero's original question: For the most part no. I was always painfully shy and self-conscious, so I also never really got much peer socialisation or anything of the like. Body image has always been a problem with me, to the point where I developed something akin to exercise bulemia during the last year or so of highschool and into university. The only reason that it kinda eased off was when I started travelling and wasn't able to control my life as minutely, which brought all kinds of other issues though. Now that I'm back home I've noticed my issues with food resurfacing. Definitely not a good thing.

~Simone.

Hi Lady amarant, Hey what you say closely resembles me growing up. Shy and a loner for the most except maybe for one or two kids, or later grown ups I hung out with occasionally. After the age of twenty five I had a double whammy to deal with. I knew I wasn't going to get any bigger then 5'3" and 115lbs. and my features were becoming more male looking. I knew that size wise it would be hard for me to go with the guys which I didn't realy have anything in common with, and I could not fit in with the girls although I spent more time with the girls then I did with guys unless I was showing off to them that I was just as much a man as they were.

Well anyway that's enough of the garbage, it's in the past and I am now who I have always desired to be.

"And oh, by the way," if you don't hear from her first I was in touch with a mutual friend earlier today.

Cindy