Hello. I'm new here, so bear with me if I sound like a moron.

I can't start HRT yet. A friend of mine thought it might be a good idea if I could start taking natural stuff, like soy and what not, in order to do the best that I can now, and start HRT for real later. Is this safe? Is it plausible? I know that you're probably thinking that I should just wait it out, but I can't do that. I'm a late bloomer and I'm starting to bloom, so I'm wanting to nip this in the bud, per se. let me know if you need any other info.

Typically supplements are not a good idea.  You have to take such large doses that it can become unsafe.  Not to say you won't get different opinions from health stores.

Sarah L.

Herbals don't really work.  I was on them for about 6 months and nada.  I am getting better and quicker results on HRT.

I tried a popular brand of  herbal hormones at a high and consistent dose for 6 months. I got nothing, when I switched to prescription drugs I responded nearly immediately. I'd say save your money.

I'm going to have to say that Herbals do work!...  😮 😮 ...BUT.....

.....like HRT, it really depends on your metabolism.... For example, some of the girls here have seen no real breast growth for 6 months on full strength androgen and oestrogen, but others see major changes in a few weeks.

For me I saw very real effects after as little as 4 weeks on a standard dose of soy isoflavones sold as a standard menopause product....I've saw roughly an inch on the bust and hips, and lost an inch of the waist in 8 weeks with an interesting shift in fat distribution. I also experienced some softening of the skin....but I have suffered from mild gyncomastia all my life, and I am currently 50. 

So here's some ideas I've picked up from my research that might explain this...

1) Soy Isoflavones are reasonably cheap and safe in the recommended dose, and they have a proven effect similar, but not the same as oestrogen, and they are nowhere near as strong as prescription drugs. They are also recommended to men for certain health conditions.

2) Don't try to exceed the recommended daily dose, as because your body will simply dispose of the excess leaving an acceptable level in your system....or in other words you will be pi...ing your money away!

3) There will be virtually no effect if your hormones are well balanced, as they effectively depend on a hormone deficiency to work...which is why they are prescribed for menopausal symptoms in GG's.

So who are they likely to work for?....

...Well the chances are better the older you are, because your 'T' is likely to be dropping off leaving some free receptors in your system to pick up oestrogen or these herbals. If you have suffered from "man-boobs" or have a hormone deficiency then the same applies.

If you are young or you think you have a well balanced 'T' count, then don't bother!

....So hopefully you can see that I can understand the lack of results seen by Janet, and Imadique, as well as supporting the overdose advice from Sarah.

For me it was an interesting experiment which I did for a number of reasons, but again.... I have to recommend that it's better to seek professional advice if you can.


Chrissty

No one has been clear on solid proof or anything about this.


If I were on estradiol, and also added Fenugreek for example, or maybe even a T-blocker or something like Saw Palmetto...


Er lemme reword that.

Would estradiol and Fenugreek together be less effective because they both can't go to the receptors at the same time?

And would adding an androgen blocker-esce substance like Saw Palmetto help along with Spiro? I'm pretty much curious.... Cause taking a normal, ok dose of Saw seemed fine when I was on it. I made sure not to try ODing on it... But Spiro is also dangerous in high amounts. So my doctor has me on Spiro AND Finasteride. Its working but its not at the level I feel like It should be I guess. I almost want to add a very small dose of Saw to it as well... That wouldn't be harmful would it?

I mean. Estrogen and phytoestrogen is a different story. Someone explain this to me CLEARLY and with a freaking source for once. I'm sick of taking people word for it and then finding out I'm an idiot later on.

Hi deviousxen,

If you are under the care of a doctor and taking a prescriptive course, I would strongly advise against taking any other substances. Even if there are no major problems, your doctor may refuse to contine working with you if they should find out.

Wait till your next session and talk through your issues if you are not satisfied with the results..

Take Care

Chrissty

Quote from: Chrissty on October 19, 2008, 02:32:50 PM
Hi deviousxen,

If you are under the care of a doctor and taking a prescriptive course, I would strongly advise against taking any other substances. Even if there are no major problems, your doctor may refuse to contine working with you if they should find out.

Wait till your next session and talk through your issues if you are not satisfied with the results..

Take Care

Chrissty

You mean going to the health food store and taking a miniscule amount of Saw Palmetto? They wouldn't see it show up in the blood test if they weren't testing for it.

I dk, I'll ask her, but I feel like a tiny bit of upping is needed. Not much, just subtly...

Quote from: deviousxen on October 19, 2008, 04:51:57 PM
You mean going to the health food store and taking a miniscule amount of Saw Palmetto? They wouldn't see it show up in the blood test if they weren't testing for it.

I dk, I'll ask her, but I feel like a tiny bit of upping is needed. Not much, just subtly...

Hey we both know what were talking about, if it really were that "tiny" you wouldn't really care anyway. So whats next after the SP?....

No, you have a concern, you need to talk it through before acting, and keep the mutual trust going with your doc......

...at least you've got one who will prescribe, which is 100% better than I've got over here in the UK.

Chrissty

Rather than give you a "they're bad" or "they're unsafe" or "they don't work"
(those responses have always been rather anoying and/or unhelpful to me...)
I will explain to you why they are unsafe...


They do work.
to some degree.
they do cause some boob growth and personality changes....
and..
they are dangerous.
the reason is, there are other ingreedients in the herbal phytonutreants that are dangerous in large doses.
Black Cohosh in particular.

Black Cohosh is a blood thinner...

There have been more than a few known cases of people getting stroke and or heart attack (and dying dying as a result) as a result of using herbal phyto-estrogens for hrt.

also, at least one person may have died as a result of metal poisoning from the herbal suplement she was taking...


The danger and quality varries from brand to brand, and a lot depends on where the herbs are grown, and under what care.
However, manufacturers typically go with the cheapest source available, and even when they do use high quality ingreedients, they almost always don't use pure phyto estrogen
to do so, would be a pharmeceutical, and so to be able to get any noticable results, one has to take litteraly handfuls at a time...

this dramatically increases the dosages of all compounds in the plants and capsule, not just the phytoestrogens.

The increase of other compounds may well be the source of the strokes and heart attacks that have occured. however there may also be other factors present.

at the moment, there is no pure source of 100% pure phyto-estrogen, they are all, to my knowledge, powdered, gelled, or distilled plant escences that contain phyto-estrogen.

this may at some point change.
however, due to the current evidence of people dying, I personally made the choice to discontinue the use of herbals.

I can say, I did get some head throbbing while I was on them...
It wasn't a very pleasant feeling.

The results wern't nearly comparable to regular hrt.
it would be like comparing a moped to a ferrari.

that's my experience, and I don't reccomend them.
they could kill you.

-Sara

Small amounts of fennel and fenugreek do?

What about the tales of them complementing mothers who are breast feeding

and why does that conflict with the point of, "The receptors will not respond well to two different kinds of estrogen."

What I dont understand about that is women have all sorts of estrogens in them.. Not just one. They all have to play their part

And Im surprised that something sold in tea at the supermarket would give you poisoning from a cup a day from a teabag. I NEVER mentioned taking stupidly large amounts, Im just curious.

Fenugreek, I can't really speak for.

I did try it, but at the same time as the others, so there would be no way to tell the symptoms appart.
in any case, I do remember fenugreek not having much of an effect. some, but not much.

-Sara

Quote from: Captain StarFleet on October 16, 2008, 10:39:02 AM
Hello. I'm new here, so bear with me if I sound like a moron.

I can't start HRT yet. A friend of mine thought it might be a good idea if I could start taking natural stuff, like soy and what not, in order to do the best that I can now, and start HRT for real later. Is this safe? Is it plausible? I know that you're probably thinking that I should just wait it out, but I can't do that. I'm a late bloomer and I'm starting to bloom, so I'm wanting to nip this in the bud, per se. let me know if you need any other info.

In the short run, yes. In the long run, no. Herbals do give you a little taste of what HRT feels like but they are no substitute for an actual hormone regimen. Besides, as Sarah Louise pointed, you have to take a ton for it to actually do more than give you a mild case of the boobs.

I tend to agree with Chrissty.  I've been using phytoestrogens for the last year and have had good results.  I've actually grown a whole cup size, my nipples erected and my areolas expanded some as well.  I began to see results within about month or so.  The ones that I've used are Black cohosh, dong quali, red clover and fenugreek.  I took a little more than the recommended dosages and I also combined this with daily massages of my breasts.  I know that we're all different, but I'd give them a try if you're curious.  Best of Luck!

Donna

I've had measurable results with "herbs".

<--looks down at tits

Your mileage may vary.

Hi, I know this is an old thread, but I'm just getting to it.  I am using herbals right now and have been for about 2 months.  This is because I am working overseas and am not able to continue a professional program until I return home.  I've had fair results with these.  My breasts have grown a bit, to where they are noticeable and my nipples are more pronounced and often erect.  Other changes are not obvious, but then again, I've only been on them for a short time.  When I finally finish my work here, I will get back in therapy and hrt under doctor supervision.