http://www.latimes.com/news/local/politics/cal/la-2008election-california-results,0,1293859.htmlstory?view=8&tab=0&fnum=0

Hopefully this will get caught up in appeals for the next six years and more people can get married but what's next for the movement?

wow. 

Quote from: MeghanAndrews on November 05, 2008, 12:27:19 PM
... but what's next for the movement?

Learning that we cannot win with simply lots of money and television/radio buys.

Learning we actually will have to place our butts on the line and meet those who we fear and who fear us. Otherwise they will never associate "homosexual" with anything other than the monster-laden caricatures put out by Focus on The Family, the Mormon and Roman churches and others.

A page-book from the Obama phenomenon. What's next? Learning from our mistakes.

Nichole

Well as someone who is very involved in California politics its kind of surprising.  The failure of the no on 8 people to carry either (if not both) Los Angeles and Riverside.  Had they done that, it would have passed.  And too, I'm a bit surprised by the failure of San Diego County.  But look at the North, everything from Monterey to Humbolt, even including Contra Costa and Yolo.  It carried in Alpine and  due to a very strange historical quirk.  And I don't even begin to know how to explain Mono.  But I didn't think it would carry in either Contra Costa or Yolo. 

It's close.  Very close.  But they needed far more of an effort in the Southland.

Proposition 8 is not necessarily final, there are 400k votes that separate yes from no, and estimated about 3/4million uncounted provisional/absentee ballots that have not been counted.

Tell them that you want ALL the proposition 8 votes counted! Call today! CA secretary of state: (916) 657-2166, or you can lodge a recorded complaint by calling 1-800-345-VOTE.

GOGOGO IT IS NOT OVER YETTTTTT.

It's not over.

The one thing to remember is that it may have started to look to easy for us all. Maybe some of us had forgotten that it never was easy to begin with. Now it's time to get back in shape and show some muscle.

I read that a whole bunch of states voted against LGBT issues.  At first I was angry, but then I thought "who cares" how those elections came out. All we have to do is continue to be ourselves and we will have change.

Our time will come. So let's all be certain to dress up nicely.

I know I sound like a broken record here, but... If you don't live in California, how dare you call our election office and demand anything?  Really?  Ain't that our call to make? - and it will be made!

But that right belongs to us and us alone.

And the fact that they failed to get either, if not both, of the key LA counties is what lost this deal.  Blame it on LA.  Up North, we (almost) all voted for it.  Well, far past the 'bay area.'

lol. blame la, that's hilarious tekla, thanks for making me laugh tonight, i needed it.

Quote from: tekla on November 05, 2008, 09:17:32 PM
I know I sound like a broken record here, but... If you don't live in California, how dare you call our election office and demand anything?  Really?  Ain't that our call to make? - and it will be made!

But that right belongs to us and us alone.

And the fact that they failed to get either, if not both, of the key LA counties is what lost this deal.  Blame it on LA.  Up North, we (almost) all voted for it.  Well, far past the 'bay area.'

I agree. They do that here too in Mass. When the topic comes up, they come from all over.  I think they should be banned and/or brutalized for interfering in our destiny.  We have the world's oldest living constitution. It's not for others to decide for us what we do with it.

Quote from: tekla on November 05, 2008, 09:17:32 PM
I know I sound like a broken record here, but... If you don't live in California, how dare you call our election office and demand anything?  Really?  Ain't that our call to make? - and it will be made!

But that right belongs to us and us alone.

I don't want to stir the pot too much here, but wasn't it money and effort that came from out of state what made the YES vote happen?  Specifically from the Mormon Church, and I believe the Roman Catholic Church had a hand, as well as all the fundies?

Other than making a donation to N.O.W. and HRC I did not participate.  However if there were some way I could have I would have, even though I am not a resident.

And if there is a way I could lend a hand now, I would.

Hopefully, early next year, Illinois HB 1826, will come up for a vote.  That is the civil union act for Illinois and I am a great supporter of that since I reside here.  Illinois has complete gender equality laws that helped make my transition so wonderful.  And having a civil union law will allow my partner and I to have legal status as a couple.

Given all the hoopla over Prop 8 and others, I wouldn't doubt that the fundies and others try the same crap here that they did in California.  And I would very much appreciate any effort from anyone to help enact HB 1826 into law, no matter where they resided.

Now, tekla, if all it is that you have your knickers in a twist about is calling the election office, I would agree.  Election requests should be made by the residents.

-Sandy

It was out of state money that put it on the ballot in the first place, we had already had a Supreme Court ruling that most of the people seemed to be able to live with.

And it failed due to a total lack of support in SoCal, well, except for Santa Barbra, but I would have thought they could have got LA or Riverside.  Just one might have been enough.

Quote from: tekla on November 06, 2008, 08:13:48 AM
And it failed due to a total lack of support in SoCal, well, except for Santa Barbra, but I would have thought they could have got LA or Riverside.  Just one might have been enough.

No amount of money to support the No on 8 campaign is going to quickly change popular opinion in Southern California for one initiative. What NoCal had going for it was years and years of an entrenchment of gay acceptance. The No on 8 movement most likely had little impact in Northern Cal, people knew how they were going to vote. That's the way it is.

I'd prefer to see people in our community and our allies stay cohesive and not start finger-pointing but, alas, people are people, it's what happens.

Ya know, if we are going to find some blame then I believe the very fact that for the most part we're often fearful of leaving our own enclaves and actually working to show a human face to "the other side" is our biggest problem.

TBH, if you're gonna look for reasons in LA and other points south then look no further than the FACT that votes for Obama did NOT add up to Votes for NO on 8. Why, I'd suspect that huge numbers of African-Americans were persuaded to vote for Obama and the same people cast YES votes on 8. Same with Hispanic-dominated counties & populations.

As long as we only stir among ourselves and refuse to go into places where we are afraid and they are afraid of us that same pattern will prevail.

There's no doubt that "outsiders" began the work and promulgated the work on YES for 8. But how many of those outsiders voted on 8? And there is the rub. Californians simply don't know one another and know that "the crazies in SF" are just other human beings with lives to lead and no nasty "agenda" to push on other people and "subvert" their families and lives.

I mean, good grief! Catherine and I are hardly monsters out to subvert others' children into the great Lesbian-horde that will gloat as those kids become perverts, monsters and trudge into Hell! But, ya know, if they never meet us or those like us, many folks are going to be able to have their fears aroused by the spit-flecked mouths and tropes of Barbera and Dobson and the sheer morons in Arkansas who push this garbage consistently.

It took black folk 44 years to go from The Civil Rights Act of 1964 to the Presidency. They managed through familiarity and the recognition that they were jsut other people too and that was to manage a 52% vote on a 12% population. But, it worked.

I'm not certain I am very much concerned with the success of "legal challenges" to accomplish what needs to be done with peoples' hearts and minds.

Nichole

I'm not finger pointing, I'm looking at a map and telling you where it lost.  Why it lost is another matter.  But, at least in knowing where it lost, you know where you really have to do the work next time. 

A lot of money was poured into Alameda, SF, Marin and Sonoma, and for what?  It was always going to pass in those places.  Every no or yes on 8 dime that was spend in SF county was a total waste.  The conclusion there was a foreordained event. 

And I bet (I've haven't gone to the county maps yet to make sure, but I'm pretty sure) that Nichole is right, and its the Hispanic vote that went for Obama and Yes. 

But, we know where the work is do be done.  I'm not blaming LA exactly, but just trying to point out that its not going to pass in the State of California if it doesn't pass in LA.  And it didn't.

Nichole also pretty much commented on South-Central and Compton and areas where there are large A-A populations. tekla. And you're pretty sure she's right about that as well, aren't you?

Outreach and putting one's own butt on what one fears is "the line" is never fun. Much safer and I can still say I've "done the work" if I'm going door-to-door in Santa Barbara, the Mission District or Monterey instead of in Gilroy, Salinas, Watts, or Fremont, no?

From way over here thinking of way back then I'd say "yes, it does."

But, thanks for the agreement on the "Hispanic-vote."

Nichole

The county Fremont is in went NO.  Its very much one of those car culture places where they don't even really have a sidewalk system, so the door to door deal is a lot harder. 

And, so, its really back to the Ledge and the Gov now.  Don't expect fast progress.

As you've seen in reading my blog today at WordPress I don't expect "fast progress." I expect us to see what went wrong and to fix ourselves accordingly. It may take a long time to make-it-right. We just have to do the work on ourselves and get out there and change minds.

Nikki

Hey, its try and try again.  Not every New Deal program worked.  Some were real bad.  But they tried something.  And if it didn't work they had no problem with saying 'it didn't work' and replacing it with something else.

But I don't think there is going to be any sort of Monica deal going down, and I doubt that he is going to make the catastrophic mistakes like Katrina, that kept Bush off balance.

I think he is going to be like Reagan in that he is going to to in and do what he wants to do, not look back, and don't apologize for it either.  It really works.

Hey, I think you're right and I think what he does try is not going to be bashed from the second he enters the Oval Office, the way it was with Clinton.

This time, regardless the LTBG votes, he won a pretty convincing majority and may have shut-up the conservo-bots for long enough that he'll get a few weeks anyway to have folk see that he ain't god, bit is a man with some passion, and a whole lot of sense and ability. (The Limbergers and Cold Hers will try to do their numbers, but i think at this point the outrage in the country has more to do with the previous administration than with those who are gonna be trying to down him from the git.)

Although I may well be wrong.

Nichole

I hope one outcome of the 'new spirit' is that Limbaugh et. all. are far less interesting.  That they get a lot less attention.  Their time and their ideas are no longer in operation.  That, gosh darn it, they are just not in fashion anymore.

And, to the degree that Sarah is now the darling of the far right, that only helps.  She has a few months, no more than a year, to figure out how to lose that shopping spree, know-nothing, mooseburgers image or she'll be stuck with it.  Ask Dan Quale what that's like.  Nothing could be better for us than the far opposition having a clown as their public image.