So in amongst all the cheer and celebration at Barack Obama's win, things did not seem to be going as well in California. From what I've read a yes on prop. 8 is way more significant than just being local to Cali, and I just hope it doesn't end up being a huge setback for everybody else too. Frankly I think it's disgusting that a people can actively campaign and vote to take the right to officially express your love for another person away like that, but what can you do.

I suppose though that campaigning specifically for "marriage" was always going to be an emotional issue - it's amazing how important words are to people. In the long run, maybe fighting for civil unions equal to marriages is the more sensible road to follow.

I don't know, that's what we have here in South Africa, and while not perfect, it at least allows same-sex couples to build a life together in the same way that hetero couples do. Having three different "marriages" does have issues, big ones, but it's better than having one that only recognises a few people.

~Simone.

One can hope, though I hardly expect it, that we as a nation will wake up and realize "civil unions can be as good as, but different than, marriage" is unconstitutional, and that laws prohibiting a group of people from being able to do something is legislated discrimination.  We're taught from early on that the US is the "land of the free" so I find it particularly difficult to understand it when we act like the nation of "everyone can have rights, except those people".  And I really thought we were past "separate but equal" as a whole.

When I woke up and checked the results for prop 8 I immediately felt physically sick, and I live in one of the (currently) three states that recognize marriage as a union between two people.  It looks like Connecticut has defeated the constitutional convention initiative by an 18 point margin, that gives me hope locally that Connecticut's constitution won't be changed any time soon.  I can only be so happy with local successes when from all indications so many in other parts of the country are having their rights stripped away.

I'm disgusted about prop 8 when I woke up this morning and saw that it won 52%

I lost a little faith in society just right now.

My feelings mirror those of Shanetastic. To me, Obama winning is a hollow victory, much like ENDA was for us when it passed. So great, we have a Democratic president now, that's just great. But when you have a RECORD number of voters turning out, ESPECIALLY to give Obama a landslide victory, you would expect the Democrats to at least flex some liberal muscle a little bit, ESPECIALLY in California. I mean, I grew up hearing about how liberal and open-minded California was. How does Los Angeles County vote YES on Prop 8? How? It's sick, really. Take a look at the county by county breakdown, it's pretty eye-opening.

So I go to work today a little sadder, a little more cognizant of the world we really live in. It's not what I was expecting from my California. Meghan

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/politics/cal/la-2008election-california-results,0,1293859.htmlstory?view=8&tab=0&fnum=0

Odd, it seemed perfectly expectable from way over here on the other coast. Afterall, what had ensued on the last popular referendum vote in CA on gay marriage?

What overwhelming change had occurred that would make anyone think that a sea-change had happened outside Orange County, LA County and Bay Area?

In places where there visible gays "NO" won. In places there aren't "YES" won.

I'm going to continue to believe that until we overcome our own fears and understand that, although tv/radio and campaign literature is important, human contact and human faces are more important, votes like this will "surprise" us.

Fearful as it may sound we are going to have to actually meet those who are prone to the acceptance of us as the monstrosities we are painted as by those they do know. I believe that if we are going to become successful we are actually going to have to give human faces to ourselves and our borthers and sisters and actually go where we fear to go: to the homes and businesses of those we believe will kill and maim us if they get the chance.

That can be a very tall personal order to fill and I'm not suggesting that we gather and walk through Montgomery, Alabama going door-to-door, but maybe Lassen, Shasta, Siskiyou, Merced, Fresno and San Luis Obispo counties would be possible. No?

Nichole 

I'm still astounded that something like this could ever be put up for a vote.

Why not vote to prohibit interracial marriages? I mean what's the (legal) difference between that and banning gay marriages?

Kate

Given the "proposition" laws in many western states voting on interacial marriage and other things of that nature would be perfectly possible given the proposal can garner enough signatories to qualify.

The operation, outside of maybe New Hampshire, isn't as well known on this coast, Kate.

Nichole

Quote from: Nichole on November 05, 2008, 01:50:25 PM
Given the "proposition" laws in many western states voting on interacial marriage and other things of that nature would be perfectly possible given the proposal can garner enough signatories to qualify.

Then I vote to ban social conservatives from being able to vote, since they apparently have no grasp of what the "democratic process" is beyond it being a tool they exploit to legislate their personal bigotries into law.

Kate

O, that would be great and I'd vote for it, except that in PA we cannot have that kind of referendum.

... Now, we could maybe move to Cali and begin to agitate and work to have that sort of proposition voted on!

Nichole

Quote from: Nichole on November 05, 2008, 02:44:49 PM
... Now, we could maybe move to Cali and begin to agitate and work to have that sort of proposition voted on!

Agreed! And the social conservatives would all go nuts complaining about how we can't just strip them of their implied rights like that, no one has a right to impose their values of who can and can't upon THEM, blah blah...

And they STILL wouldn't "get it."

Kate

Prop 8 hasn't won... yet.  There are over 3,000,000 absentee ballots in CA that still need to be counted.  Since Obama was pushing early voting & absentee voting to circumvent potential poll problems, there's a high possibility that many of those ballots were cast by liberal voters.  Prop 8 is currently passing by about 450,000 votes.

It's official: Californians care more about farm animals than gay people.

Quote from: Alyssa M. on November 05, 2008, 04:28:44 PM
It's official: Californians care more about farm animals than gay people.

I think it's horrible that not only did one pass with a landslide and the other is down to counting every last vote, but that they made the same ballot.  We're now looking out for the humane treatment of chickens than our own citizens?  It's a mess.

Quote from: Mister on November 05, 2008, 04:30:42 PM

Quote from: Alyssa M. on November 05, 2008, 04:28:44 PM
It's official: Californians care more about farm animals than gay people.

I think it's horrible that not only did one pass with a landslide and the other is down to counting every last vote, but that they made the same ballot.  We're now looking out for the humane treatment of chickens than our own citizens?  It's a mess.

indeed its a mess  . and  its a mess we should and need to fix !!. and make it  legal  all over the usa and the world . for us to have the right to marry and

the right to be able to adopt kid,s  no matter if your  gay lesbain or transgenedered  we have rights and we need to begin to stand up for our selfs

and demand our rights to live just like everyone elese in the world!!!! but like i siad it ant gonna happen untill we stand up as one . and let our voices

beheard . and speak with one voice  united !! and push for the same rights as the the whole world  enjoys!! so that we may enjoy them too. and live

together in peace and happyness just like every one in the world . but the frist thing WE  need to do is  STOP THE BACK BITING AND FIGHTING !! and

put that engery into a movement that where we all come together as one and with one voice say to the rest of the world  we have rights too . and

we demand thos rights to be protected. the same as every one in the world has . but it wont happen if we just set on our bottoms and talk about it

we need to get off our bottoms and begin to stand up as one . and demaned our rights!! ok  rant over now  iam off my saop box now 

Jaysus wants you to turn straight, you dumb sinners. Why, if Jaysus were here rot now, he'd drive a big fat SUV, belong to a neighborhood association and vote r'publican.

Amerucka is a place whar you kin be free to live any way ya please, as long as ya ain't one o' those sinnin' queers. And in this great land of ares, everybody is created equal, cept immigrants n homersexuls. An' foreigners. An' jews.

Praise Jaysus. (He also wants fer you to be rich!)

Don't sweat it. There'll be a change. If not today, then tomorrow. If not tomorrow, then get a gun and make it happen.

People are going to get married anyway. What are they going to do, send police in to arrest a bride and bride who choose to marry in a church that is accepting of it?  That's the other thing. There are now churches that are fine with same sex marriages.  So, freedom to live and worship are being attacked. If it isn't a religious act, then why do some couples need to be married in a church so badly?

In time, the pinheads will lose their traction on this issue. Most young people aren't as hung up as their parents are about these things.

One of the married couples I know is two women. What they do is answer questions honestly when asked about their spouse. One person at a time is learning that it isn't the end of the world when a same sex couple get married. Let's just hope it's more than just one person a day learning this.

Quote from: Rebis on November 05, 2008, 07:10:33 PM
People are going to get married anyway. What are they going to do, send police in to arrest a bride and bride who choose to marry in a church that is accepting of it?  That's the other thing. There are now churches that are fine with same sex marriages.  So, freedom to live and worship are being attacked. If it isn't a religious act, then why do some couples need to be married in a church so badly?

The biggest part of this isn't the fact that gays and lesbians want to marry in a church, it's the fact that marriage comes with it a whole host of rights and privileges that grant the spouse things like hospital visitation, inheritance in the event of death, etc. Most of the same-sex marriages that occurred between May and election day were just in a plain old court house, no big church wedding or anything. That, along with the very fact that it's unconstitutional to have any sort of "separate but equal" thing in the law makes it so important. When blacks got their rights, yet were still segregated, that wasn't enough. They didn't just want the rights, they wanted the respect and to live with the knowledge that they are seen as equals.

In California, there is the California Domestic Partnership law or something that does grant most, if not all, of the same benefits to same-sex couples as marriage does to heterosexual couples, but it's not recognized by employers and the general public doesn't necessarily understand what a domestic partnership or civil union entails. Therefore, a name can have big consequences. Marriage isn't just a cool thing that gays and lesbians want so they can brag to people that they are married. It's a word that signifies the rights, obligations, and protections afforded to them by the law.

Well just to muddy the waters a bit, isn't it funny that Obama won 52% of the popular vote?  At the same time, it appears that Prop B passed by 52%.  I am happy with half of the results    but if I am going to be honest, I have to realize that regardless of what the silly electoral college tallies, neither prop 8, not Obama's win, really represented an overwhelming mandate from the people.  In fact, in recent times, only Reagan's second term was over 60% of the popular vote.  Small victories and some large ones happen, but the sobering truth is that we are still a very deeply divided nation.

Kristi

Quote from: Kate on November 05, 2008, 02:18:17 PM

Quote from: Nichole on November 05, 2008, 01:50:25 PM
Given the "proposition" laws in many western states voting on interacial marriage and other things of that nature would be perfectly possible given the proposal can garner enough signatories to qualify.

Then I vote to ban social conservatives from being able to vote, since they apparently have no grasp of what the "democratic process" is beyond it being a tool they exploit to legislate their personal bigotries into law.

Kate

I'm thinking of a referendum preventing out of state Mormons from donating huge amounts of money to propositions. 

Z

Quote from: Zythyra on November 05, 2008, 09:50:24 PM
I'm thinking of a referendum preventing out of state Mormons from donating huge amounts of money to propositions.

I would've thought that sorta thing would be banned anyway, I mean, the states are supposed to be independent, self-governing entities, for the most part. Huge-scale influence like this from outside parties is clear interference.

~Simone.