Barbra Boxer, Russ Feingold, Tom Harkin, Edward Kennedy, Patty Murry. There are a few.

That's a good rundown of the Senate, maybe Schumer and Lautenburg as well.

I think over in the House there are way more as the last class and this class of Dems are showing.

As for the immigration issue I think businesses, especially small and tenuous ones like landscaping and fairly large and not so tenuous farms, at least those in the Midwest and Cali will make certain that the opportunity to keep their profits up and their workforces full will slant immigration policy a good deal.

Hopefully, we'll see a policy that allows more off-market countries fairer immigration quotas. I don't count any country in western Europe among those though.

Nichole

I may need to emigrate. So you think that country has right to put people in prison because they do not want to serve in the military. I will go prison with full feminie outlook until some country acceps me.

We've put people in prison for just that.  Many times.  I always thought that those, like David Harris who went to jail rather than serve had more moral courage then those who went to Canada.

I am going to apply asylum from Canada because I am mid-transition and prison would kill me.

Canada has much more liberal policies of asylum I think.

Quote from: goingdown on November 07, 2008, 09:59:16 AM
I may need to emigrate. So you think that country has right to put people in prison because they do not want to serve in the military. I will go prison with full feminie outlook until some country acceps me.

TBH, yes. I don't think any western democracy is gonna allow a "political asylum" case immigration based on a refusal to serve in a military of a country they support. Bad precedent, hon. Sorry, that's just the way it stacks up for me.

Although I do sympathize with you. I would suggest that you not make it more an issue than it will be. Perhaps with hrt, etc, they'll reject your military-service anyhow? Is that a possibility?

Nichole

They do not grant me that unless I found a humanist lawyer that will not respect the word but the sprit of the law. It would be nice to see that you would go self prison in mid-transition.

Posted on: November 07, 2008, 11:10:42 am

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You talked about hormones. Military wants to give me testosterone. Many of my TS-friends have say me that in common sense I deserve an asylum. I have right to make decisions that includes my body. Is my humanright to decide about my body.

Well I have to agree with Nichole, avoiding military service in Red China might get you some help, but from a Euro nation, not much.

QuoteThey do not grant me that unless I found a humanist lawyer that will not respect the word but the sprit of the law. It would be nice to see that you would go self prison in mid-transition.

Was that a suggestion that I should have to go to prison?

I don't think prison is good for much of anyone, GD. I sympathize with your position, but haven't a clue how to help you. But, I think you also show some signs of maybe pushing yourself and your government in such a way that will be negative for yourself.

I wouldn't want at all for you to go to prison, but I also see someone who gets into the habit of mind that the worst is always going to happen to her when there may be other avenues. Perhaps getting some legal advice would be a good idea. Right now you seem to be consigning yourself to a prison. Not good, I think.

Nichole

It was for Tekla not for you.

Posted on: November 07, 2008, 11:22:35 am

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But many younger transwomen and one older had say me that because they are going to alter my body without my approval I may have right to asylum. It is my body and my right to decide it.

Quote from: goingdown on November 07, 2008, 10:26:22 AM
It was for Tekla not for you.

Posted on: November 07, 2008, 11:22:35 am

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But many younger transwomen and one older had say me that because they are going to alter my body without my approval I may have right to asylum. It is my body and my right to decide it.

OK. Now what does one attorney say? The trans-women are not going to know your legal rights, the attorney prolly will. That makes a huge difference, luv. Get some professional advice would be the best suggestion I could give you. Honestly, trans-women could say most anything, none of it bearing on the legal facts.

Nichole

My attorney says that military has right to make violations for peoples human rights here in Finland and urges me to search asylum for country that could accept it because of ''right to own body'' argument.

Then start writing letters and visiting consulates and embassies. You live in Helsinki? or close? That would make it easier, no?

Nichole

Quote from: goingdown on November 07, 2008, 10:32:31 AM
My attorney says that military has right to make violations for peoples human rights here in Finland and urges me to search asylum for country that could accept it because of ''right to own body'' argument.

You really should talk to someone who fully understands your law and who can provide you with as many options as possible.

I didn't Finland was such a militaristic society. Can't you sneak into Belguim or Denmark, or some other more tolerant place?

Well I would like to think that if I was faced with that choice, an illegal/immoral war, or jail, or asylum, I would choose to go to jail for my beliefs rather than run or give in.  But I'm a jerk.

And I wasn't suggesting that anyone go to jail.  I was just noting that if you think the United States does not put people in jail for that, you would be wrong.  Pretty much, its exactly the wrong place to try to make that argument.

You have not have draft since 1973. And old lefties tend to have much more disrespect towards military than I.

I figure why waste time in jail when you could further aggravate the Power, or The Man, or Whitey by running around free.  Then if they catch me, I'd be like "whatever - your stupid walls cannot hold me. Chumps."

Yes. I'd actually say "chumps".

I'd also thank them for all the free food and beatings ahead of time. Even a contrary should be polite.

Quote from: tekla on November 07, 2008, 11:26:30 AM

And I wasn't suggesting that anyone go to jail.  I was just noting that if you think the United States does not put people in jail for that, you would be wrong.  Pretty much, its exactly the wrong place to try to make that argument.

You are wrong Tekla. Your country has not had draft since 1973 and it is not coming back thanks to Obama. I know several Finish people that move to America after draft era and married an American woman to avoid draft. The people would NOT accept reinstitution for draft. And it is agains fundamentally principles of personal freedom that people in your country believe. It is just right place to go and dodge draft because of strong libertarian tradition. Just Tekla and Nicole you need to grow up from 60'ties drugcaves. You are only foreingners that have taken very seriously the hole issue. Others say that it is not crime by common law so if I emigrate I should be fine.

Posted on: November 07, 2008, 01:03:13 pm

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All other people have said that my situation is going to fine without prison. You two, Tekla and Nicole, scared me without reason. I smite both of you and many times.

There simply is not the money, jobs, space or resources for a big increase in population. I have a friend that lives near the border where illegal immigrants cause much hardships for the local population. The use and trash public facilities and the local tax base can not afford the repairs and service. They have littered and started forest fires broke into private home and taken things. Many countries do not have a welfare system or medical care and ours is overloaded. The customs, language, culture differences wide up putting a burden on the police and courts.

Posted on: November 07, 2008, 03:20:23 pm

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QuoteOthers say that it is not crime by common law so if I emigrate I should be fine.

You need a social security number to work legally. If you us false documents you will be arrested and deported you could serve jail time.