Quote from: Kelleygurl on November 14, 2008, 03:30:15 PM
As a 47 year old male, and strictly hetero... the thought of physical intimacy with a transgirl would be untenable...

Do you feel the same way about both pre and post ops?

~Kate~

Yes, I do. That's not to say I couldn't enjoy emotional intimacy with either. The sex thing would be a big problem for me though.

Quote from: Laura Eva B on November 14, 2008, 03:15:14 PM

"Outside of the closet cases, The other guys just have a thing for it. It's no different of a preference other men have for red hair or big boobs or something." ... 

OK, I'm not saying that there's anything wrong with ->-bleeped-<-s, or that a lot of them aren't nice guys and not at all "closet cases", but I think someone looking for a T-girl through Craiglist etc isn't quite a like preference for red hair.

What's someone with your looks and your age doing contacting over a hundred admirers on line anyway ?

Have you actually met these young guys from Florida, New Jersey and London ?? 

Surely finding a regular boyfriend who you get on with and who likes / loves you as a woman (with no T-girl issues clouding the reason for clicking with each other to begin with) and who accepts you once he knows your background can't be that difficult ?

Even finding a guy on a straight dating or chat site and "telling him" before you meet in the flesh is better than meeting up through a TG site ?  You might get lots of rejections but at least you know that there are no underlying dodgy motives in him wanting to be with you.

Laura x

QuoteWhat's someone with your looks and your age doing contacting over a hundred admirers on line anyway ?

What am I doing talking to them? To ask them questions. To feed my curiosity is all. And that line you quoted me on doesn't apply to a handful of the guys on craigs list, but for many it still does, even if those guys are still gross. But everyone on craig's list is gross in general, so that is not a specific thing towards ->-bleeped-<-s.

QuoteHave you actually met these young guys from Florida, New Jersey and London ??

Not in person but I have been close friends with them for at least 3 years now. I talk to them everyday, we're pretty close. I could tell you anything about their lives and they could mine, just like any offline friend. It doesn't matter.

QuoteSurely finding a regular boyfriend who you get on with and who likes / loves you as a woman (with no T-girl issues clouding the reason for clicking with each other to begin with) and who accepts you once he knows your background can't be that difficult ?

Not really. I've yet to be approached by anyone who is interested in me and I don't get out very much since I live pretty far from anywhere exciting. But this has no relevance to the topic of this thread.

QuoteEven finding a guy on a straight dating or chat site and "telling him" before you meet in the flesh is better than meeting up through a TG site ?  You might get lots of rejections but at least you know that there are no underlying dodgy motives in him wanting to be with you.

I read people well, especially online. I've never had to worry that someone I might meet will be sketchy or dodgy. But again, this is not the point of the thread. This thread is not about who I am seeking to have a relationship with, it is about the age demographics of ->-bleeped-<-s and admirers. By the way, there is a difference. You seem to be using them interchangeably and you should be aware that that is not entirely correct.


Posted on: November 14, 2008, 03:20:37 pm

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Quote from: Kelleygurl on November 14, 2008, 03:30:15 PM
As a 47 year old male, and strictly hetero, who is only at the point of identifying as a CDer up to now I find this a bit ironic, possibly even hypocritical. I could be a candidate for the "creepy" tag.

For the record, from the days the idea sex first entered my mind to now the thought of physical intimacy with a transgirl would be untenable (I could use a much stronger term but I don't want to insult anyone). And if one of you with questionable motives, and you are out there, managed to dupe me into it just to see if you could, it'd take me weeks or possibly months to get ok with myself again.

I don't understand what you're talking about. Are you insinuating that trans women are trying to trick you into sleeping with them?

I find no ambiguity in my statement. But since you asked let me put it other terms: I would find sex with you to be equally as repulsive as you would with that old man. The hypothetical situation I described was to demonstrate irony and maybe even a bit of hypocrisy I see coming from someone who might also be viewed as "creepy". Pot, meet Kettle.

Quote from: Kelleygurl on November 14, 2008, 04:39:13 PM
I find no ambiguity in my statement. But since you asked let me put it other terms: I would find sex with you to be equally as repulsive as you would with that old man.

I am actually not that repulsed by older men, but I get what you're trying to convey.

Though I must ask, why a problem with post-op trans women? You'd feel absolutely no difference between them or a cis-gendered female. And if they never told you you'd have no way of knowing.

Quote from: Gracie FAISE on November 14, 2008, 04:42:03 PM
And if they never told you you'd have no way of knowing.

The premise is flawed. You assume that her admission would be the only way to discover it. Also, I've never seen an MTF I didn't believe I couldn't knock off immediately so I doubt I'd ever get fooled anyway.

My main point is that I don't want to be labeled as that creepy old guy you are talking about. I'm here for myself and to be part of the community even though I only identify as CD for now.

Quote from: Kelleygurl on November 14, 2008, 05:00:49 PM

Quote from: Gracie FAISE on November 14, 2008, 04:42:03 PM
And if they never told you you'd have no way of knowing.

The premise is flawed. You assume that her admission would be the only way to discover it.

It's not flawed. It's a hypothetical question. In this specific scenario, her admission is the only way to discover it. Besides that, she is the most gorgeous woman you could ever imagine. In this case, why would you still be disgusted? It seems so irrational. Are you just overall picky with women or do you have a reason I have failed to notice?

I'm not putting you down, by the way. I'm just curious, like always.

Lets do this. Lets imagine you met a wonderful guy and you get married. After a perfect 10-year relationship you discover through a third party that he's an axe murderer. You've had 10 wonderful perfect years, he's done absolutely everything right and never once given you reason to doubt him in any way, shape or manner? Would you stay with him?

Gracie (or is it "Claire" as you first introduced yourself to the group ?).

I'm not getting at you, honestly, just that guess I'm way older than you, and I feel I never really get to know anyone properly over the net and skype, certainly not well enough to consider them a "romantic" friend !

I was never really sure whether your question about the age demographic of trans-admirers / ->-bleeped-<-s was general or because of your personal experience.

Like I said before I think admirers do have an element of repressed bisexuality in their background, and young guys are more likely to be open about their sexuallity and try out whatever.

Also a lot of older admirers get turned onto t-girls through porn and fantasy, and I guess the heaviest users of porn tend to be older guys (less you "do" the more you "watch" ?).  Guess these are the admirers you avoid !

I have been to clubs in the recent past and found there to be admirers of all ages, but they just seemed to be sad lonely figures, sitting on their own and "hoping for a catch".  And the young good looking admirers just seemed so full of themselves, thinking that with a t-girl you didn't need to make an effort, that t-girls were an easy lay.

Also I've been on the scene 20 years ago when the typical admirer really was the stereotypical sad 40+ year old guy in a worn mac !  So even admirers have smartened themselves up.

And as recently as three years ago I've experimented with on line dating, both TG and straight sites, but making my post-op status clear.  The hits I've gotten have typically been quite respectable guys, 45 - 65 age, divorced with grown up kids.  Read what you want into that ...

Guess I've found that I'm better off finding people in the real world, as I'm socially extrovert and seem to pass 100%. Sure most of the good looking guys are just out for sex, and sometimes they get it.

Kellygurl :

QuoteAnd if one of you with questionable motives, and you are out there, managed to dupe me into it just to see if you could, it'd take me weeks or possibly months to get ok with myself again.

So very sorry Kellygurl ... if you "came on" to me and passed my strict "test criterea" I might well have banged you, but I would never have told, and you would never have "guessed" ... so your "revulsion" towards us trans women would not have been a problem for you.

Actually I might have phoned afterwards and told you just to make you "sick" 

Laura x

Quote from: Laura Eva B on November 14, 2008, 05:19:21 PM

So very sorry Kellygurl ... if you "came on" to me and passed my strict "test criterea" I might well have banged you, but I would never have told, and you would never have "guessed" ... so your "revulsion" towards us trans women would not have been a problem for you.

Actually I might have phoned afterwards and told you just to make you "sick" 

Laura x

lol, touche'

Quote from: Kelleygurl on November 14, 2008, 05:13:53 PM
Lets do this. Lets imagine you met a wonderful guy and you get married. After a perfect 10-year relationship you discover through a third party that he's an axe murderer. You've had 10 wonderful perfect years, he's done absolutely everything right and never once given you reason to doubt him in any way, shape or manner? Would you stay with him?

You seem to have answered my question with a question. I hope you're still planning on answering the question appropriately?

But for the record, yes, I would. But I would call the police and have him arrested, because regardless of how much I love him he is still a criminal.

Posted on: November 14, 2008, 04:23:46 pm

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Quote from: Laura Eva B on November 14, 2008, 05:19:21 PM
Gracie (or is it "Claire" as you first introduced yourself to the group ?).

I'm not getting at you, honestly, just that guess I'm way older than you, and I feel I never really get to know anyone properly over the net and skype, certainly not well enough to consider them a "romantic" friend !

I was never really sure whether your question about the age demographic of trans-admirers / ->-bleeped-<-s was general or because of your personal experience.

Like I said before I think admirers do have an element of repressed bisexuality in their background, and young guys are more likely to be open about their sexuallity and try out whatever.

Also a lot of older admirers get turned onto t-girls through porn and fantasy, and I guess the heaviest users of porn tend to be older guys (less you "do" the more you "watch" ?).  Guess these are the admirers you avoid !

I have been to clubs in the recent past and found there to be admirers of all ages, but they just seemed to be sad lonely figures, sitting on their own and "hoping for a catch".  And the young good looking admirers just seemed so full of themselves, thinking that with a t-girl you didn't need to make an effort, that t-girls were an easy lay.

Also I've been on the scene 20 years ago when the typical admirer really was the stereotypical sad 40+ year old guy in a worn mac !  So even admirers have smartened themselves up.

And as recently as three years ago I've experimented with on line dating, both TG and straight sites, but making my post-op status clear.  The hits I've gotten have typically been quite respectable guys, 45 - 65 age, divorced with grown up kids.  Read what you want into that ...

Guess I've found that I'm better off finding people in the real world, as I'm socially extrovert and seem to pass 100%. Sure most of the good looking guys are just out for sex, and sometimes they get it.

Fair enough. Perhaps if I ever get into the club scene when I turn 21 my opinions might change, but until then...

What does it say about me that damn near every person I've dated or slept with since 1996 was someone I met online (including my wife)?

Quote from: Gracie FAISE on November 14, 2008, 05:23:46 PM

You seem to have answered my question with a question. I hope you're still planning on answering the question appropriately?

I posted before I read the modified scenario. The way you have constructed this is still flawed because I don't know if she's TS and am therefore unable to make an informed judgment about what I might do. But I have to admit in that case I would have a difficult time rejecting her. Still, she doesn't exist.

QuoteBut for the record, yes, I would. But I would call the police and have him arrested, because regardless of how much I love him he is still a criminal.

BTW he's not a fugitive. Though guilty, he got off on a technicality. Would you still stay with him?

Quote from: Kelleygurl on November 14, 2008, 05:37:07 PM

Quote from: Gracie FAISE on November 14, 2008, 05:23:46 PM

Quote from: Kelleygurl on November 14, 2008, 05:13:53 PM

You seem to have answered my question with a question. I hope you're still planning on answering the question appropriately?

I posted before I read the modified scenario. They way you have constructed this is still flawed because I don't know if she's TS and am therefore unable to make an informed judgment about what I might do. But I have to admit in that case I would have a difficult time rejecting her. Still, she doesn't exist.

But for the record, yes, I would. But I would call the police and have him arrested, because regardless of how much I love him he is still a criminal.

BTW he's not a fugitive. He got off a technicality. Would you still stay with him?

Yes.

Now it's your turn.

QuoteLets do this. Lets imagine you met a wonderful guy and you get married. After a perfect 10-year relationship you discover through a third party that he's an axe murderer. You've had 10 wonderful perfect years, he's done absolutely everything right and never once given you reason to doubt him in any way, shape or manner? Would you stay with him?

If I found out my loved one was really a serial killer or worse, yes I would call the cops and send that person to the slammer.

Quote from: Kelleygurl on November 14, 2008, 05:13:53 PM
Lets do this. Lets imagine you met a wonderful guy and you get married. After a perfect 10-year relationship you discover through a third party that he's an axe murderer. You've had 10 wonderful perfect years, he's done absolutely everything right and never once given you reason to doubt him in any way, shape or manner? Would you stay with him?

Kelly, think you should consider just how offensive that analogy sounds ?

OK I would never leave it 10 years to tell, my current guy I told after 4 months (and before full blown sex) as I thought he thought things were getting real serious.

QuoteThe premise is flawed. You assume that her admission would be the only way to discover it. Also, I've never seen an MTF I didn't believe I couldn't knock off immediately so I doubt I'd ever get fooled anyway.

OK you're a CD so maybe more perceptive when it comes to "->-bleeped-<- spotting" ...  ...

But I've arranged meetings with local TS women who've seen my pics, and who still walked past my table as I was so obviously a woman and not the person they were looking for.  And my record of pulling straight guys for repeat dates is embarassing ... like last night when I'd rather not think about how far I went with a guy I'd just met, guess in compensation for John cooling off a bit to me ...

Laura x

I'm pansexual: I'm attracted to people I find attractive, regardless of their equipment. I'm also 39.

So, I'm a creep?

Quote from: Shades O'Grey on November 14, 2008, 05:53:18 PM
I'm pansexual: I'm attracted to people I find attractive, regardless of their equipment. I'm also 39.

So, I'm a creep?

No?

Quote from: Gracie FAISE on November 14, 2008, 05:38:28 PM
Yes.

Now it's your turn.

Sorry, I fudged the code and you quoted me before I fixed it. Re-read the post.

Maybe I'm just being dumb, but I don't see the similarity between someone who intends only to harm another using violence, cruelty, with the ultimate objective of ending a life, and someone who wants to live life to the full, being a productive, active, contributing and integral member of society through the simple act of correcting a defect they were born with in order to do so.

Call me naive, but I always thought you fall in love with the gift, not the wrapping. And if the relationship was perfect to start with, why would any revelation about who a person used to be change that? They aren't that person now, and they weren't that person when you met. I mean, using that logic, why do you not see them as a snivelling three-year-old wearing a diaper and snorting milk out through their nose? After all, they used to be that, too. It doesn't make sense.

Unless it is purely the physical lust that drives the relationship... in which case, it would be far too shallow and superficial to be anything close to perfect in the first place.

People are people, with the same capacity to love, care, trust, feel, hurt, hope, dream ect. The process of physically altering one's outward appearance to fall into line with one's inner self-image takes none of that away. In fact, it could be argued that through such persistent self-awareness, such emotional capacity is actually heightened.

My own view, transmen or transwomen... aren't any less men or women because we were unfortunate enough to be born with the incorrect anatomy. It just means we've had to work a little harder to be ourselves. Ourselves having being there all along. If you fall for a transwoman pre-transition, she's no less a woman. Post-transition... likewise. The heart, soul, spirit, desire, capacity for human interaction: all female... even if, pre-transition, the external appearance is ostensibly male. The essence of what makes a person isn't based solely on the sack of flesh they walk around in, no matter how attractive that may or may not be.

Just my thoughts.