Quote from: Kelleygurl on November 14, 2008, 08:06:10 PM

Quote from: Northern Jane on November 14, 2008, 07:47:09 PM
On the subject of straight guys freaking out when the find they have been attracted to a woman who "used to be a guy" (which is the way they see it) is pure homophobia. Most straight men would rather cut off their pxxxx and their bxxxx than think they were the least little bit homosexual.

The root of the problem is that most of "enlightened society" simply doesn't understand the difference between sex and gender and finds it incomprehensible that they could be opposite each other. After all, EVERYONE KNOWS that if you have bits that stick out, you are a boy and will become a man and if you don't you're a woman. To begin to acknowledge that there may be some separation between sex and gender undermines the very cornerstone of modern society!

P.S. On the original subject I can't comment - I have always been stealth.

What if it collides with their religious faith? Would you disregard that with the excuse that they are homophobic, ignorant about their own sexuality and don't deserve the basic human respect of honesty all so you can know what it's like to be a complete woman? Seems a little selfish to me.

There isn't anything in anyone's holy text saying that it is wrong to have transsexualism. Cross dressing, yes. Transsexualism, no. (And no, that was not a swing at you.)

Plus, I'm sure most people with transsexualism can safely say they wouldn't be with anyone that religious to begin with.

All of these worries you're expressing are coming from a very paranoid mindset that we are all men trying to trick other men. We're not. We're just women trying to live with a birth defect. We shouldn't have to wear pink triangles on our jackets.

Quote from: Gracie FAISE on November 14, 2008, 08:10:08 PM

As for post-op? It is best that they do the same sometime in the relationship before it gets really really heavy and long term, but it is not a 100% necessity.

Or there is a fear of rejection and it's much easier to reason away the issue of complete honesty about one's past as a matter of convenience. I'd reference another post around here on the subject of leaving your past behind and how easy it is for it to catch up with you ala' Six Degrees of Separation. It's more likely than you think.

Quote from: Kelleygurl on November 14, 2008, 08:18:11 PM

Quote from: Gracie FAISE on November 14, 2008, 08:10:08 PM

As for post-op? It is best that they do the same sometime in the relationship before it gets really really heavy and long term, but it is not a 100% necessity.

Or there is a fear of rejection and it's much easier to reason away the issue of complete honesty about one's past as a matter of convenience. I'd reference another post around here on the subject of leaving your past behind and how easy it is for it to catch up with you ala' Six Degrees of Separation. It's more likely than you think.

Not in fear of rejection, just because it is not something someone has to share. Personally I think I will tell them somewhere down the road. But because I am starting at the age I am, the "six degrees" thing won't work that well on me, as the only people that used to know me as a male are my high school peers which I never see anymore. I don't even have work history under my old name.

Quote from: Gracie FAISE on November 14, 2008, 08:15:26 PM

There isn't anything in anyone's holy text saying that it is wrong to have transsexualism. Cross dressing, yes. Transsexualism, no. (And no, that was not a swing at you.)

Plus, I'm sure most people with transsexualism can safely say they wouldn't be with anyone that religious to begin with.

All of these worries you're expressing are coming from a very paranoid mindset that we are all men trying to trick other men. We're not. We're just women trying to live with a birth defect. We shouldn't have to wear pink triangles on our jackets.

CD in the Bible, LOL. That issue is covered on these very boards. At this point I have to say that your life experience and over-all knowledge are far less than mine. I don't want to pull rank on you but I am over twice your age. You sound educated and write intelligently but your information is bad, your debate tactics are wanting and you come off sounding like a bad used car salesman.

My concern, not worries (because there is absolutely no risk any of you would ever "trick" me), is that I not be labeled as one of those creepy old men trying to pick up on you pretty TS gals because I'm only a CDer and thereby have some pentup fetish to act out. I have stated this several times now but it all seems to get lost with you insecure gals worrying about never having that "normal" relationship and then blame everyone else for having sex hangups.

Geez

Posted on: November 14, 2008, 08:28:41 pm

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Quote from: Gracie FAISE on November 14, 2008, 08:21:34 PM

Not in fear of rejection, just because it is not something someone has to share. Personally I think I will tell them somewhere down the road. But because I am starting at the age I am, the "six degrees" thing won't work that well on me, as the only people that used to know me as a male are my high school peers which I never see anymore. I don't even have work history under my old name.

Okay well good luck on that. Hope nobody gets hurt, especially you. It would probably make me angry, even violently so. Think about that, hun.

Quote from: Kelleygurl on November 14, 2008, 08:31:01 PM

Quote from: Gracie FAISE on November 14, 2008, 08:15:26 PM

There isn't anything in anyone's holy text saying that it is wrong to have transsexualism. Cross dressing, yes. Transsexualism, no. (And no, that was not a swing at you.)

Plus, I'm sure most people with transsexualism can safely say they wouldn't be with anyone that religious to begin with.

All of these worries you're expressing are coming from a very paranoid mindset that we are all men trying to trick other men. We're not. We're just women trying to live with a birth defect. We shouldn't have to wear pink triangles on our jackets.

CD in the Bible, LOL. That issue is covered on these very boards. At this point I have to say that your life experience and over-all knowledge are far less than mine. I don't want to pull rank on you but I am over twice your age. You sound educated and write intelligently but your information is bad, your debate tactics are wanting and you come off sounding like a bad used car salesman.

My concern, not worries (because there is absolutely no risk any of you would ever "trick" me), is that I not be labeled as one of those creepy old men trying to pick up on you pretty TS gals because I'm only a CDer and thereby have some pentup fetish to act out. I have stated this several times now but it all seems to get lost with you insecure gals worrying about never having that "normal" relationship and then blame everyone else for having sex hangups.

Geez

Posted on: November 14, 2008, 08:28:41 pm

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Quote from: Gracie FAISE on November 14, 2008, 08:21:34 PM

Not in fear of rejection, just because it is not something someone has to share. Personally I think I will tell them somewhere down the road. But because I am starting at the age I am, the "six degrees" thing won't work that well on me, as the only people that used to know me as a male are my high school peers which I never see anymore. I don't even have work history under my old name.

Okay well good luck on that. Hope nobody gets hurt, especially you. It would probably make me angry, even violently so. Think about that, hun.

You accuse me of CD bashing, when you make the analogy that a ts women not sharing her past is like an axe-murderer, and you reveal that YOU have VIOLENT tendancies, typical!  Ignore me if you wish, ditto.!

Quote from: Kelleygurl on November 14, 2008, 08:28:41 PM

CD in the Bible, LOL. That issue is covered on these very boards. At this point I have to say that your life experience and over-all knowledge are far less than mine. I don't want to pull rank on you but I am over twice your age. You sound educated and write intelligently but your information is bad, your debate tactics are wanting and you come off sounding like a bad used car salesman.

My concern, not worries (because there is absolutely no risk any of you would ever "trick" me), is that I not be labeled as one of those creepy old men trying to pick up on you pretty TS gals because I'm only a CDer and thereby have some pentup fetish to act out. I have stated this several times now but it all seems to get lost with you insecure gals worrying about never having that "normal" relationship and then blame everyone else for having sex hangups.

Geez

QuoteCD in the Bible, LOL.

It's in leviticus. I Lol'd as well.

Quoteyour information is bad, your debate tactics are wanting and you come off sounding like a bad used car salesman.

Nothing is more frustrating than a backhanded compliment...
I am not misinformed, I just disagree with you. I could say you are the one who is misinformed. Just because you are older than me doesn't mean you are more worldly or wise. It just means you were born first.

Quote(because there is absolutely no risk any of you would ever "trick" me)

A nice swift punch to my gut. Lovely.

QuoteMy concern, not worries (because there is absolutely no risk any of you would ever "trick" me), is that I not be labeled as one of those creepy old men trying to pick up on you pretty TS gals because I'm only a CDer and thereby have some pentup fetish to act out. I have stated this several times now but it all seems to get lost with you insecure gals worrying about never having that "normal" relationship and then blame everyone else for having sex hangups.

:"/ I have never posted at all, not even hinted at, saying that you were a creepy ->-bleeped-<- ->-bleeped-<- because you are older and a cross dresser, and in no way what so ever do I think that cross dressers are closeted people with transsexualism.

Okay, that's enough.

As far as this forum is concerned, the only 'rank' is between staff and members, and that only extends to forum operation and maintenance. So no one has any right to pull anything. Your experience and knowledge is yours, as is everyone else's theirs. Bravado through who knows the most and who's the 'wisest' is ultimately futile since you know nothing about other people except for what they post here.

Please don't start making this personal.

Kelleygurl, no one labeled you as anything, and nor do I suspect is anyone particularly inclined to do so. No one knows you.

Being confrontational solves nothing.

Please keep this in mind, from the site rules:

Quote15. You may challenge the issue, but never people or groups.

And keep the topic on track rather than degrading it into a flame war. I don't want to have to lock it.

Thank you.

Quote from: Kelleygurl on November 14, 2008, 08:31:01 PM
Okay well good luck on that. Hope nobody gets hurt, especially you. It would probably make me angry, even violently so. Think about that, hun.

I'm a pretty sharp judge of character. I don't think I'll have any trouble. Thanks for your concern anyways.

Posted on: November 14, 2008, 07:42:43 pm

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Quote from: Leiandra on November 14, 2008, 08:41:18 PM
Okay, that's enough.

As far as this forum is concerned, the only 'rank' is between staff and members, and that only extends to forum operation and maintenance. So no one has any right to pull anything. Your experience and knowledge is yours, as is everyone else's theirs. Bravado through who knows the most and who's the 'wisest' is ultimately futile since you know nothing about other people except for what they post here.

Please don't start making this personal.

Kelleygurl, no one labeled you as anything, and nor do I suspect is anyone particularly inclined to do so. No one knows you.

Being confrontational solves nothing.

Please keep this in mind, from the site rules:

Quote15. You may challenge the issue, but never people or groups.

And keep the topic on track rather than degrading it into a flame war. I don't want to have to lock it.

Thank you.

Note taken. I apologize.

Quote from: Leiandra on November 14, 2008, 08:41:18 PM
Okay, that's enough.

As far as this forum is concerned, the only 'rank' is between staff and members, and that only extends to forum operation and maintenance. So no one has any right to pull anything. Your experience and knowledge is yours, as is everyone else's theirs. Bravado through who knows the most and who's the 'wisest' is ultimately futile since you know nothing about other people except for what they post here.

Please don't start making this personal.

Kelleygurl, no one labeled you as anything, and nor do I suspect is anyone particularly inclined to do so. No one knows you.

Being confrontational solves nothing.

Please keep this in mind, from the site rules:

Quote15. You may challenge the issue, but never people or groups.

And keep the topic on track rather than degrading it into a flame war. I don't want to have to lock it.

Thank you.

Thanks, glad we got that out of the way.

Quote from: Kelleygurl on November 14, 2008, 06:25:38 PM
There's just that one little sticking point...and the chance however small that they might revert to previous behavior.

Might you explain this a little further? I so badly wanna understand. I know you don't represent everyone, but it might offer some clues at least?

~Kate~

I was making a generalized comparison of two situations with some similarities. I'm obviously failing to persuade anyone of my point of view and I've been admonished for breaking the rules. To try to push the point any further by elaborating would only invite more of what I feel is pidgeon-holing me unfairly. And I'm sure that would be allowed to be go on all the way up to the point where I responded in kind, and then I'd be reprimanded again, or worse.

No thank you.

Honey, you can make as many general observations as you want. The point is to debate the issue, and not to bring specific people into it. And you're perfectly entitled to your point of view, as long as you appreciate that everyone else is entitled to theirs.

What I said wasn't directed at anyone inparticular, apart from the part about you having not being labelled as anything. It was a general note of caution to try and keep the thread on track and on the subject at hand rather than having it deviate off into "I don't agree with you because you're X or Y or Z" Targetting specific people just leads to arguments that have nothing to do with the subject, but only focus on trying to identify each other's flaws and exploit them.

Anything you have to add that would explain the way you feel would be more than welcome. Just keep it general, that's all. *hugs*

Quote from: Kelleygurl on November 14, 2008, 09:25:59 PM
I was making a generalized comparison of two situations with some similarities. I'm obviously failing to persuade anyone of my point of view and I've been admonished for breaking the rules. To try to push the point any further by elaborating would only invite more of what I feel is pidgeon-holing me unfairly. And I'm sure that would be allowed to be go on all the way up to the point where I responded in kind, and then I'd be reprimanded again, or worse.

No thank you.

Many people on this board just don't seem to grasp analogies sometimes. It's not your fault.

Quote from: Gracie FAISE on November 14, 2008, 09:49:15 PM

Quote from: Kelleygurl on November 14, 2008, 09:25:59 PM
I was making a generalized comparison of two situations with some similarities. I'm obviously failing to persuade anyone of my point of view and I've been admonished for breaking the rules. To try to push the point any further by elaborating would only invite more of what I feel is pidgeon-holing me unfairly. And I'm sure that would be allowed to be go on all the way up to the point where I responded in kind, and then I'd be reprimanded again, or worse.

No thank you.

Many people on this board just don't seem to grasp analogies sometimes. It's not your fault.

But I did understand the analogy, being extreme is something I don't care for.  I'm not starting a flame war here, but how can someone say a stealth ts girl is comparable to an axe murderer?  There has to be some similiarities for that  comparison to be used, and please explain where there is one?  It doesn't make sense, and its very insulting. 
I'm sorry, but I feel some people on here are homophobic and transphobic, which is kinda strange because its a transgender site.  These discussions never end well unfortunately.  I just ask that people be more kind, but its too hard for some.   

Quote from: buttercup on November 14, 2008, 10:06:03 PM

Quote from: Gracie FAISE on November 14, 2008, 09:49:15 PM

Quote from: Kelleygurl on November 14, 2008, 09:25:59 PM
I was making a generalized comparison of two situations with some similarities. I'm obviously failing to persuade anyone of my point of view and I've been admonished for breaking the rules. To try to push the point any further by elaborating would only invite more of what I feel is pidgeon-holing me unfairly. And I'm sure that would be allowed to be go on all the way up to the point where I responded in kind, and then I'd be reprimanded again, or worse.

No thank you.

Many people on this board just don't seem to grasp analogies sometimes. It's not your fault.

But I did understand the analogy, being extreme is something I don't care for.  I'm not starting a flame war here, but how can someone say a stealth ts girl is comparable to an axe murderer?  There has to be some similiarities for that  comparison to be used, and please explain where there is one?  It doesn't make sense, and its very insulting. 
I'm sorry, but I feel some people on here are homophobic and transphobic, which is kinda strange because its a transgender site.  These discussions never end well unfortunately.  I just ask that people be more kind, but its too hard for some.   

Literally, one can not compare them. But the focus of the analogy was "lying to a significant other", not that the significant other in the analogy is an axe murderer. The axe murderer husband was just background set up for the actual analogy.

QuoteMany people on this board just don't seem to grasp analogies sometimes. It's not your fault.

Don't worry. I'm guilty as charged.

Quote from: Kelleygurl on November 14, 2008, 08:31:01 PM
Okay well good luck on that. Hope nobody gets hurt, especially you. It would probably make me angry, even violently so. Think about that, hun.

I was going to reply to some of your points but this invalidates everything you've said. It's totally wrong for you to threaten her with physical harm. Your criminal tendency's have no bearing on the rightness or wrongness of her choice. In my opinion as long as you feel you have the right to threaten violence toward other people here you do not belong here at all.

Quote from: Nikki on November 15, 2008, 12:31:19 AM

Quote from: Kelleygurl on November 14, 2008, 08:31:01 PM
Okay well good luck on that. Hope nobody gets hurt, especially you. It would probably make me angry, even violently so. Think about that, hun.

I was going to reply to some of your points but this invalidates everything you've said. It's totally wrong for you to threaten her with physical harm. Your criminal tendency's have no bearing on the rightness or wrongness of her choice. In my opinion as long as you feel you have the right to threaten violence toward other people here you do not belong here at all.

He wasn't threatening me. Reread that post. He was defending me.

Quote from: Nikki on November 15, 2008, 12:31:19 AM

...do not belong here at all.

I've come to the same conclusion.

Quote from: Gracie FAISE on November 15, 2008, 12:46:09 AM

Quote from: Nikki on November 15, 2008, 12:31:19 AM

Quote from: Kelleygurl on November 14, 2008, 08:31:01 PM
Okay well good luck on that. Hope nobody gets hurt, especially you. It would probably make me angry, even violently so. Think about that, hun.

I was going to reply to some of your points but this invalidates everything you've said. It's totally wrong for you to threaten her with physical harm. Your criminal tendency's have no bearing on the rightness or wrongness of her choice. In my opinion as long as you feel you have the right to threaten violence toward other people here you do not belong here at all.

He wasn't threatening me. Reread that post. He was defending me.

Having reread it a dozen or more times I can sort of see how you're reading it.

Quote from: Kelleygurl as you read it i think on November 14, 2008, 08:31:01 PM
Okay well good luck on that. Hope nobody gets hurt, especially you. <If you were hurt,> It would probably make me angry, even violently so. Think about that, hun.

I will concede that viewing transsexual history as comparable to voluntary axe murders and contagious STD's leaves me a little biased, but I think the big problem with reading it as a defense not a threat is the "probably". If what would anger him is you being hurt by someone else why is that a probably? I would certainly be angered, just the implied threat as I read the post angered me. I can't really mesh a probably in that spot with a defensive read of the statement.

Quote from: Kelleygurl as i read it on November 14, 2008, 08:31:01 PM
Okay well good luck on that. Hope nobody gets hurt, especially you. <If you told me late in a relationship,> It would probably make me angry, even violently so. Think about that, hun.

I could be wrong but baring new evidence, at this point, I don't really see enough doubt to retract.

Just noticed when I was about to read one last time before hitting Post. While I was reading things over he posted and did not dispute my read, which I would expect if I was so extremely wrong about what he was saying.