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What's with all the Japan-mania?

Started by Hypatia, November 30, 2008, 10:27:26 PM

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deviousxen

Quote from: ell on December 01, 2008, 07:53:58 AM
Quote from: Hypatia on November 30, 2008, 10:27:26 PM
/topic,50121.msg311715.html#msg311715]For example[/url]
I don't mean to pick on the individuals in that conversation

But for me it was just another language, not a major wannabe obsession. Where did all the wannabes come from?

it's not entirely generational, and your use of the derogatory, "wannabes" is perhaps part of the understanding problem.

my interest in this area actually started with Heavy Metal magazine, back in the late 70's. i thought it was deliciously saucy, weird, and, just fun. Lots of sci-fi elements. and it was also the first time i had ever seen Trans people depicted in a very positive light.

i ignored Japanese graphic novels (and still do) and also tuned out most anime shows on TV as just plain uninteresting.

Then sometime around 2004 i think it was, Tech TV aired the entire anime called Serial Experiments Lain. Lain has many of the same shortcomings as lots of other Japanese stories (namely, obsession with violence and suicide) but it also runs very deep in several different directions. most importantly, for me at least, is the way it deals with the idea of lies told perpetrated against society. Aside from Lain, i do not watch any other anime.

as for other things, Japanese horror films are quite fun, the movie Rashomon (also the book) and of course, Hagakure: the book of the Samurai.

-ell

Thats unfortunate. You're missing out on many more intellectual adventures, you just gotta find the right one. Paranoia Agent and Paprika for one. FLCL, for all of its mania and nonsense, had one of the most beautifully executed endings ever. It actually made me cry.

Fullmetals a bit of a fad, but it certainly has a wonderful style and plot. :P
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Alyx.

Quote from: Zythyra on December 01, 2008, 08:40:33 AM
Quote from: lisagurl on December 01, 2008, 08:35:52 AM
America has very little culture of its own. We are just consumers not artists or poets. Rather then be focused on a passion we work for the man to buy toys. Marketing has sold you out.

America has a rich culture, other people in the world are much more aware of it than we are. The corporations sell us dreck, and we stand in line for more.

Z
That's probobly true, we just can't see it, because for us, it isn't culture, it's everyday life. :)
If you do not agree to my demands... TOO LATE
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Jeatyn

heh that was me in that conversation  :P

If your main hobby is video games, it's hard to not admire Japan. Then it spills over into anime, manga, and the likes.

I've always been a very techy person, and Japan with it's advanced technology and everything just seems amazing. Here, if I'm good at video games, I love manga and collect figurines I'm known as childish and a geek. It's just part of the culture over in Japan. Grown men and women dress up as their favourite characters and go to cosplay events and nobody bats an eyelash. I do the same here and people think I'm an idiot.

Their family values, the way children are raised, it's all so different from England or America

I think if you're the type of person who's never fit in with the world around you, a culture where everything is pretty much the opposite of what you're used to is bound to be appealing.
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soldierjane

Japanese pop culture to me is appealing in its attention to aesthetics, its embracing of future-oriented thought and the bursting, unapologetic youth of its spirit. There's also an immense variety of it: from the artistic to the crude, from the memorable and intellectually challenging to the merely entertaining.
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lisagurl

QuoteTheir family values, the way children are raised, it's all so different from England or America

Japanese children have the highest suicide rate in the world.

QuoteAndy Warhol contributed some very interesting thought in regards to the ways that culture is perceived and consumed.

Now if you consider corporate culture as a positive export, I think it stretching the word.
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Jeatyn

Quote from: lisagurl on December 01, 2008, 11:53:53 AM
QuoteTheir family values, the way children are raised, it's all so different from England or America

Japanese children have the highest suicide rate in the world.


I know that, because of the immense pressure to succeed in life

however when you look at the other end of the scale, a lot of kids in england are just running riot. Never making anything of themselves except a nuisance

I sound so much older than I actually am there =p damn kids, get off my lawn
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cindybc

I'm pretty cool with any new fads except for the violent type stuff and smutty stuff I abhor. I was pretty well up to date with the new fads, including animes and Japanese movies up until 6 years ago when the last time I had kids under my roof, but I still love animes and all that robotic stuff from Japan.

I like anyone who is nice to me, no matter what nationality or beliefs. I worked with Germans, Swedes, Hungarians, Czechs, Japanese, Vietnamese, Chinese, African Americans, Mexicans, and North American Natives, Seminoles and Cherokee, I have lived at one time or another on pretty well every state on the east coast across the US border, and every east coast provinces in Canada, and I only ran into a hand full of a-holes on my journey.

I learned many different languages, not with books but from just being around people of different nationalities. There is always the universal language to communicate with someone who doesn't speak English, it is called body language for one, and after a while from just plain being around them I get the feel of what they are trying to communicate.

I love traveling and I love exploring new places, and if it were still possible financially I would be the first one in the car ready to go. I love anyone who is nice to me in return, including Japanese.

Cindy   
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lisagurl

QuoteI know that, because of the immense pressure to succeed in life

Rather than succeed how about being human and contributing to the betterment of human kind. That does not mean having a lot of material things or making a lot of money or consuming a lot to add more jobs.
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Jeatyn

Quote from: lisagurl on December 01, 2008, 01:55:14 PM
QuoteI know that, because of the immense pressure to succeed in life

Rather than succeed how about being human and contributing to the betterment of human kind. That does not mean having a lot of material things or making a lot of money or consuming a lot to add more jobs.

I agree there are many different ways to succeed. A lot of it is focused around getting a good job, and if you don't live up to the expectations of your family (or society as a whole) you're seen as a failure. It's a shame really.
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Constance

When I took an art of the world class in college, one of the assignments was a cross-cultural examiniation thing. I chose Manga, mostly on a whim.

Manga dates back to the 12th century, but in a very different format that what exists today. Modern manga does indeed show Western/American influences. That said, it still (to me, at least) seems to be a distinct form of illustraion art that is indeed different from more Western forms. I like some manga simply because I find it aesthically pleasing. I like the sharp lines and vivid colors and immense eyes. My fondness for manga is based purely on what I like to look at, not any assumed guilt for something that was done long before I was born.

In the research for my manga paper, I learned that manga is now taught compulsory in schools. To some Japanese artists, this is not good as it can cause artistic stagnation if it's compulsory.

I also like surreal art, primarily Magritte and Dali. I guess that sometimes manga can have a surreal quality to it, too.

I liked Godzilla a lot as a kid, and my son is hooked on the beasty now. The only Kurosawa film I ever saw was his interpretation of King Lear: Ran. My English teacher that year was a big Shakespeare and Japanese arts fan; so we watched this movie in class while studying King Lear. I have no memories of Astro Boy, but I do indeed remember watching Speed Racer and Ultraman on syndicated TV in the late '70's. As kids, my brothers and me used the word "Japanimation" to describe the "Japanese adventure cartoons" we used to watch.

My son is a real big manga and anime fan, though I've never asked him why. Many of his friends have these same interests, and it's better than setting fires and defacing public property, so I never explored his fascination with him.

Soto Zen Buddhism, the form that I practice, had its birth in Japan, as did Dogen. I'd like to visit Japan, specifically the birthplace of Dogen, for this reason. It would be a pilgrimage of sorts.

Likewise, I find Mount Fuji to be just beautiful. I've seen many photos of it and I'd like to visit it in person. Of course, I can say the same of Mount Shasta, Lassen, Rainier, and many others, so it's not just Fuji.

To me, Ansell Adams and Frank Lloyd Wright are prime examples of successful American artists. So, I don't think I'd agree with the sentiment that America lacks culture. It's just harder to find under the Americana (though many will say that Americana is American cultural art).

I like some Japanese food, though Chinese and Italian appeal to me more.

I've seen photos from other peoples' visits to Japan. I'd like to see those places with my own eyes. Am I obssessed with Japan as a destination then? No more than any other place I'd like to visit (you can add Big Sur, the Great Lakes, and Ashfall Fossil Beds to the list, along with the mountains listed above).

I can only speak for me. I don't feel like I'm obsessed with Japanese art and culture. I would like to visit the country, however.

Hypatia

Well, I'd had no exposure to manga. I came of age slightly before video games took over America's youth, in the late '70s, so I missed out on all that. I did read Heavy Metal magazine in those days, though. But all I remember from it was French comix, like Moebius, plus some American material. Did it have Japanese manga too? I'm drawing a blank now.

No one I ever knew personally was into manga, nor did I ever see it anywhere until a few years ago. (Now the public library and Barnes & Noble stock it). I didn't get what all the fanatical devotion was about.

But when I found out there was an entire lesbian genre of manga, that was all I needed to suddenly take interest. It's the lesbian angle that caught me rather than the manga phenomenon itself. So far I've begun to explore it with a little Yuri Monogatari and Erica Sakurazawa; I would welcome recommendations for good yuri, as long as it's for grown-up women.
Here's what I find about compromise--
don't do it if it hurts inside,
'cause either way you're screwed,
eventually you'll find
you may as well feel good;
you may as well have some pride

--Indigo Girls
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Hypatia

Quote from: Shades O'Grey on December 01, 2008, 03:47:57 PMI have no memories of Astro Boy

You didn't miss much. It was made for little children, and it happened to be on American TV in the mid-'60s, when I was in first grade or so. It didn't continue for long, though.

Edit: I just remembered another one from the '60s, Marine Boy.


When I was in middle school, the boy who raped me claimed to be playing Ultraman with me, and he was the monster. Yes, as a matter of fact he was.
Here's what I find about compromise--
don't do it if it hurts inside,
'cause either way you're screwed,
eventually you'll find
you may as well feel good;
you may as well have some pride

--Indigo Girls
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Constance

Quote from: Hypatia on December 01, 2008, 04:24:30 PM
But when I found out there was an entire lesbian genre of manga, that was all I needed to suddenly take interest. It's the lesbian angle that caught me rather than the manga phenomenon itself. So far I've begun to explore it with a little Yuri Monogatari and Erica Sakurazawa; I would welcome recommendations for good yuri, as long as it's for grown-up women.
A lot of the pornographic or otherwise sexually explicity manga I've come across does leave something to be desired (no pun intended). It seems that much of it revolves around pedophilia, rape by montsers (non-human), rape in general, and cross-generational sex. Maybe others like it, but it gives me the heebee jeebees.

Fox

Ive always enjoyed anime and computer games for a long time.
Also while never taking any classes myself ive long had an appreciation for the beauty of martital arts of the orient.
I would truly love to go to Japan at least once to see the culture and scenary as well as to visit some of the shrines of Inari and the birth place of Zen. I do like to listen to the Japanesse language and I am considering taking it in college as a foreign language requiremnt if its offered. That aside I would not wish to live in Japan either now or in the past. In the past Japan had a exteremly male dominated culture and a strong basis around tradition and formality neither of which im fond of. As for present day Japan the price of living there is among the highest in the world and the entire Island is heavly overpopulated. As for anyone wishing to live in Japan later last I heard the country was so overpopulated that they where not alowing any foriengers to come live there except under special circumstances.

When it comes to alot of anime I think it is a case thats similar to medieval chivalry. As in somethign that depicts a stylish idealized setting that actually didn't exist that particular way. Oh and age wise im 25
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Constance

I studied karate a bit as a kid. I think my parents wanted me to learn to defend myself against bullies. I never used it though: I was way too passive.

My son studied karate for a while, though I can't quite remember how he got started.

Shinto intrigues me as I see parallels between the Paganism I practice and Shinto. So in addition to visiting the birthplace of Dogen and Soto Zen, I'd like to seem some Shinto shrine in person. Pictures in books or online are all very well, but there's something about being there that matters to me.

Agewise, I'm 39: 19.5 years older than my son.

Hypatia

Quote from: Shades O'Grey on December 01, 2008, 04:40:15 PM
Quote from: Hypatia on December 01, 2008, 04:24:30 PM
But when I found out there was an entire lesbian genre of manga, that was all I needed to suddenly take interest. It's the lesbian angle that caught me rather than the manga phenomenon itself. So far I've begun to explore it with a little Yuri Monogatari and Erica Sakurazawa; I would welcome recommendations for good yuri, as long as it's for grown-up women.
A lot of the pornographic or otherwise sexually explicity manga I've come across does leave something to be desired (no pun intended). It seems that much of it revolves around pedophilia, rape by montsers (non-human), rape in general, and cross-generational sex. Maybe others like it, but it gives me the heebee jeebees.

Not that-- I was talking about yuri-- focused on relationships between women. For me, good lesbian media are mainly about women's loves and relationships; sex is always welcome, but not essential. Sex without love does not interest me. Rapes are right out::)
Here's what I find about compromise--
don't do it if it hurts inside,
'cause either way you're screwed,
eventually you'll find
you may as well feel good;
you may as well have some pride

--Indigo Girls
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cindybc

I don't even like to say the word that begins with an *R* People that do that should have their privates cut off.

Cindy
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Constance

Quote from: Hypatia link=topic=50486.msg312144#msg312144 Not that-- I was talking abouti]yuri[/i]-- focused on relationships between women. For me, good lesbian media are mainly about women's loves and relationships; sex is always welcome, but not essential. Sex without love does not interest me. Rapes are right out::)
Oh, I understood to what you were referring. I've found quite a bit of yuri, and yaoi for that matter, that is still violent. That's why I mentioned it.

bethzerosix

Quote from: Hypatia on December 01, 2008, 04:03:17 AM
Quote from: je on December 01, 2008, 02:21:41 AM
Quotewatashi no kokoro wa nihonjin desu

Did you say my heart is Japanese?? Forgive me if I translated wrong because my Japanese sucks...

Pretty close. That actually means 'My heart is a Japanese person'. There is no word that means "Japanese" as a plain predicate adjective; the adjective is always expressed as "Japan-(something)." I think to express your meaning, use a phrase something like 私の中心は日本にある watakushi no kokoro wa Nihon ni aru, literally 'my heart is in Japan', or 私の中心は日本のです watakushi no kokoro wa Nihon no desu, 'My heart is of Japan/belongs to Japan'. (Note: I'm saying "watakushi" because I'm a girl.)

while i havent studied japanese in school, i have spent some time in books and also with nihonjin. i was taught how to say my heart is japanese by a few different japanese girls. i was trying to learn how to say my soul is japanese.... but they always went with heart.

from what i was told, watashi is used by girls and boku is used by boys. at least in everyday speech.

;) beth

Set me as a seal upon thine heart, as a seal upon thine arm: for love is strong as death; jealousy is cruel as the grave: the coals thereof are coals of fire, which hath a most vehement flame.
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Hypatia

To the best of my understanding, boku is considered basic easygoing guy talk. While ore is the really rough form used by tough guys. Yakuza.

Watashi is the general polite form (therefore more likely to be used by girls), while watakushi is extra polite and therefore I suppose more feminine. While the really girly form is atashi or atakushi (but I'm too grown up to say that).

P.S. Anyone dealing with gender issues who wants to learn Japanese-- there are more differences between men's and women's speech in Japanese than in most languages: Gender differences in spoken Japanese

Edit-- reading that, I see I was mistaken.
Quote私, わたくし    watakushi    polite when used by both men and women; more formal than watashi. Generally preferred by men over "watashi".

This stuff is pretty complex.
Here's what I find about compromise--
don't do it if it hurts inside,
'cause either way you're screwed,
eventually you'll find
you may as well feel good;
you may as well have some pride

--Indigo Girls
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