Ok, I guess I've always known I'm not a normal girl, and I viewed myself as genderless or "both" until a year or two ago.. but I am not so sure now, and find myself wishing a lot that I could be a man.  I already live as if I were male, with my mannerisms, clothing, shaving habits, etc all being on the male side, and I sometimes dislike certain parts of my body and wish it could be replaced with male parts, but a lot of the time it doesn't bother me and I know I'd probably miss being female sometimes if I transitioned.

A friend in a similar situation to myself gave me the advice to start taking small steps towards maleness, to see what feels right to me.  I decided to start packing (using a sock) to see how I feel about that, and the thought of having a penis turns me on.

When I think about having a male body, a deep voice, and being treated like a man by the people in my daily life,  it doesn't turn me on, just makes me happy or wishful.  But when I think about having male genitals, it does turn me on sometimes... and coupled with the fact that I don't always hate my female parts... well I was wondering if this is the equivalent of autogynophilia, but the opposite?  Is it normal to be turned on by that or am I a 'pervert'?

This is my first post btw, so hi everyone.   I've already lurked around here a bit and found this forum to be wonderfully helpful.

Why can't it be both? It's 2008, after all.

Lia

There's a big difference between being transgendered and perverted. And my friend you're definitely transgendered, as you have gender issues. Only you can determine the extent of your issues and how far you need to go to be happy, whether you need to fully transition or if you just need to wear a pair of boxers and pack to be happy.

As far as getting turned on from packing. I can understand that. When you've gone your whole life with certain desires that you can't fulfill due to the parts you don't have, it can be a turn on to have something there, even if it's not perfect.

Hi Kes,

First off, welcome to Susan's . You've definitely come to the right place , this is a wonderful community where you can share any of your issues, concerns, joys, fears, you name it.

In reply to your post, have you seen a gender therapist? Probably a good spot to start. I have similar circumstances from what you've said, except coming from the other direction. It's never easy to deal with this confusion and these circumstances. The autogynephillia part is really awful in its sense, but remember one thing...do not go along with the whole BBL (Bailey, Blanchard, Lawrence) brigade, it will get you nowhere except more hurt and confused than before. I listened to it for a while, and occasionally it still passes my thoughts, but it really is practically designed to make us sound like a bunch of perverts. Autogynephillia is such a narrowed minded perception, coming from incredibly limited perspective "psychologists".

Talk about it and analyze your feelings, yup . Remember, questioning can be a good sign, in that it shows you are really working yourself to find answers and that it isn't just a small slap in the face for you. But try to not to get to down on yourself about these "pervert" things .

As someone who's had autogyne qualities, I have to comment...

This:

Do what you want, and be who you need and want to be. Even if there are psychological weird points like getting turned on by being male, I'd say its harmless and probably internalized overcompensation from not having what a big chunk of you desires...

And nothing is an explain all for a trans person. Trans people vary greatly and there are stereotypes but certainly NOT norms in my opinion.

So don't call yourself a perv. People do far worse things then being turned on by something as harmless...


-Kara

@ Findingreason: I think I would probably benefit from talking to a therapist, but there's 2 problems.  First, I'm 20 and live at home and I'm not out to my family (even though its probably obvious I have issues, it's not spoken about.) and don't have money to pay for that anyways. 

@ Emme: No, that's not where my name is from, but I'm a huge trekkie and I love Voyager to pieces XD  I thought it was great that a character had the same name as my e-name.

Thanks for the replies everyone, it made me feel less freakish. 

Kes,

Please, please don't think of yourself as "perverted!" I cringed when I saw the title you'd picked for this thread. There are too many people already who think that anyone who'd come to Susan's is a pervert.

Of course, I am assuming that you're not seducing 10 year old kids. You do that, and yes, you are a perv!

As for seeing a therapist, if you're over 18 and have your own car, there's no reason for your family to know about it. The money is an obvious problem, though.

But have you looked into support groups in your area?

Kes,
     You're not a perv not a perv not a perv. Oh and did I mention, you're not a perv?  That word has harmed too many people like us and until society pulls their heads from their rears, we are destined to hear more of that. We don't need to use those words ourselves about ourselves. We may not fit into societies mold, but that does not mean we're perverts.

     With that out of the way, support groups are definitely the way to go for anyone and even more important when money becomes an issue. We're a minority group and yet we don't have any special financial aid programs, history months or anything of that nature... go figure. Meet some people who can identify with the feelings you're having and you'd be surprised how much it will help your peace of mind. This is a good place to start, but meeting people face to face helps in ways you can't imagine.

     Off the record... I'd be more than happy to switch bodies with you for a day! Oh wait... that's a movie. Never mind, wishful thinking.

Awesome Title Kes

I just wish i had said that to my therapist on our first visit now X

Well yes its 2008 so why cant it be both and to be fair you do sound like you swing toward's the transgendered side of thing's more to me.

Are you going to seek out a therapist or a support group btw/

And welcome to susan's

hun, you're not perverted unless you work at walmart. their hr department is a bunch of crap when it comes to gender variant people. pieces of advice, don't work there, don't shop there. i like the people in my store, its the corporation that sux.

Banish that word from your vocabulary right now, at least as far as you yourself are concerned. Unless what you are doing is harming another, it's not perverted.

~Simone.

Are you perverted? Prolly not yet as we haven't had our hands on you for an extended period of time !!! You'll get there. Fear not!! 

Seriously, no, you're somewhat confused possibly and searching for some answers about you. Perversion is something else entirely.

What you really are is welcomed to be here and embraced by those who began much as you are! O, only for some of us "we" didn't particularly exist quite so openly when we were 20.

If you've not done yet, please do take a peek at and try to follow the Site Rules and otherwise forget about being perverted and relax.

You will prolly discover that "perversion" is the absolute furtherest thing anyone here is. I mean, even the right-wingers aren't perverted!! 

Welcome, Kes.

Nichole

Kes,

It's normal to feel a bit of a turn on at the thought of having the correct body. After all, that's probably how your sexuality is wired and how it will feel 'right'.

Your description reminds me a lot of me and others I've known. I'm putting my chips on you being at least TG, quite possibly TS.

Welcome, by the way

I'm sorry if I gave the wrong idea with my title, I just want to say I don't think that TG people are perverts at all!  I was just wondering if my particular situation was, well, uncommon for trans people.

I don't have a car, lol.  So seeing a therapist really is out of the question for me atm   But I have supportive online friends and I am very grateful to have that.

I never thought of group therapy.  I'm a really introverted person and would probably be too self-conscious in that setting.

Thank you for the warm welcomes

Wait, there's a difference between TG and perverted?

Oh crap, I'm on the wrong site! 

I think that a lot of people here, being of a certain background, may lack a degree of objectiveness when it comes to posts like yours- and may identify in you things which you may not have actually said exist, because it is what they are used to or what they see in themselves.

Now the definition of "Transgender" seems to be perptually shifting, so I'm gonna stay clear of that for now and bring up one specific thing.

You said the thought of having a penis "turns you on". Now this, far from being a perversion, is at the very least a sexual fetish/fantasy, and in my opinion *not* indicative of GID (Gender Identity Dissoder) which many people seem to believe is requisite for being considered "transgendered", and almost certainly is for transitioning.

That is to say, if you were to transition, it might be for sexual motives rather than identifying with a different gender, and when that procedure is complete, and the fantasy wears off - well I'm sure I don't need to explain that messy situation.

My point is simply this, we've all "thought" about what it would be like to be another gender at some point, and for those of us who get turned on by that thought, well that's getting into sexual territory and moving definitively away from "gender" territory.

So while the definition of being "transgendered" can be somewhat elusive, don't let yourself be talked into thinking you have gender identity issues, when in fact you may not. If you would miss being female, then there's no reason to consider doing otherwise, and your stuffing can be considered simply a form of sexual crossdressing.

My only worry is that all this talk of gender therapists and ->-bleeped-<- and identity and so forth might inadvertantly twist your arm into going down a path you think you should travel, but that isn't actually right for you.

That's all I have to say.


Truth Seeker

Like all the others said, long as you're not doing children, etc, etc.
Welcome to Susans.  If you can't be yourself at this time irl, you certainly can here. 
Auto-whut?......guynifeeliya?  Spell it any way you like, it's nonsense.  BUT, you are most probably tg, or ts. 




Bev

I think that there is a tendency to try to skip to the end, instead of of exploring the options up front.  Try to move around and find a level of comfort for yourself, in the end you'll know what's right.  Try to find some social support group where you can meet a bunch of different, and differing TG persons and think of how many ways, how many paths there are.  And oh yeah, enjoy yourself on the way.

And pervert is some social stigma to force and keep people in the same kind of boring boxes about sex and sexuality that they try to enforce on gender.  Don't buy in.  For most people, perverted sex is pretty much anything that ain't man on top, women on bottom let's get it over with quick once a week and only because we want kids sex.  I know a lot of people, myself included, who explore lots of different kinds of sex and sexuality.  Most of them are kinda proud to be perverts as other see it.

Sure, sex can be a very kind of very intimate and private sharing between two people who love each other very much.  But it can also be spectacle, entertainment, public, tension relief, a party activity, and range beyond just one other human, (or beyond humans) and all of that is good too.  To the degree that a lot of people seem to enjoy activities that venture off the given path - there are quite a few S&M/D&S types in here, a few who ID as pansexuals, one who said he was a furry at one point - in this forum, and even more in the rest of the world.  They are not bad people.  They are not doing bad things, even if they are doing things you would not choose or want to do.  They have an absolute right to use their bodies to create pleasure as they see fit.  If that's being a pervert, them I'm proud to be one.

ok kes well this has probably been said by someone to someone else in history but do what makes u happier.  If u would feel better with male genitalia then get the surgery. just keep in mind there is a ton of red tape before u can actually do it.  some of that is hormones and other is how long u have been seeing a therapist but it varies.  I know u havent seen a therapist yet cause of the car thing but it would help.  well i hope this helped a bit....cause if not i just wasted ur time.  so sorry if this didnt help but i hope someone or something will help. but honestly the decision for surgery is not to be taken lightly.  I honestly can say sometimes i dont mind having male genitals but the rest of the time i just hate it so its up to u but i would definitely go with what makes u happier.  well i really do hope u find your answer and i hope this isnt too weird but there are plenty of people on here that would definitely listen and help u try and figure it out including me.  also sorry thats from a stranger.  Ive scared some people off by saying that but im really that open and i can promise what u say to me will not be said to anyone else. well sorry i had to say that.  I just want to help everyone and i dont want a single person to have a hard time with anything so yeah help is here if u want it.  again sorry if its weird or strange.