Some of you may know I'm drawing a plan, Step one is to prepare my current body
for coming changes (fitness and voice).

But I understand my bodies ability to change and how far it can change is a ticking
clock based on age. Due to job I wanted to save money and prepare non-obvious
things such as fitness voice and just learning the feminine way of life.
Between now (29yrs) to when I would be 32-33 and go through transition as fast as I can.

But now I'm looking at that plan, and wondering what cost (to my body) would I pay for that.
I was going to save money for 3 years while preparing, I was going to only
start any visible changes once I already had the funds to go all the way
(once I commit its all or nothing I see no point to being half way which
is why I want the capability to do it all before the serious things begin)

But now I wonder if I'm being too courteous, since HRT wont have full impact
for years, holding it up just so I could have the funds for the total outcome might actually hurt me more.
Will leaving it too say 33 have a noticeable impact (or considerable higher risk) on my changes
being less then desired If I started in 1 year instead (30)?.

For people that may have made a choice on sooner vs risking being outed at work sooner
then wanted (or something similar, in the end , do you feel being on HRT sooner was/or would have been worth it?.
after the fact?. Did you really have a hard time keeping it to yourself until you were rdy?.

Over the years I've been hating myself and especially my body I realise now I haven't
looked after it as much as I should have, Now its dawning on me that I need this
body to be healthy for the changes I'm going to ask it. From what I hear, weight loss
seems to be much harder on HRT then it would be right now (as male).

Is this true?, so would it pay off alot more for me in delaying 1 year for much needed
work on my fitness and health, before starting HRT? is it that much harder once on HRT?.
I've already been working hard at this for a month now.

And for those (MTF) who may have worked on moderate/higher exercise before starting HRT
How did you take your mind of the fact your attempts to prepare yourself is in fact
increasing your testosterone levels.. I'm cringing over this and hate the irony.

This might be a really stupid question  but I would rather look stupid and ask this
then wonder, Although I am MTF, My work environment isn't exactly a great one for
people like me, If I go for the start sooner rather then later plan and just try to conceal
it. As my body changes ... this one just seems soo silly to me to ask I dont know why but

I take it FTM's have many many tricks for hiding things could I employ this in my work environment
to increase my odds of keeping to my 3-4 year delay in outing myself?, Or would 3-4 years not
have as big of change as to worry too much about it at my age?, I have work gear, long
work pants long steeves, helmets boots, I spend alot of my time alone.

Anyway thank you for your time

Hi, Yip.

I'm pretty much in exactly the same position as you, namely putting off doing anything transition related for at least three years, by which point I'll be 31. The reason is slightly different in that I don't plan on staying in this country past that point and am hoping to move to NY.

You don't need to go pumping iron or wearing yourself into the ground in order to lose weight. Just cut down on the amount of calories you eat, drink plenty of water, and do exercises that raise your heart rate and keep it raised. I found walking works for me (with the added benefit that my legs are much slimmer and shapely, without piling on muscle all over my body). Walk a few miles a day if you have the time (even walk back from work if the distance isn't too great) and, combined with the lower calories and water intake, you can lose several pounds per week. I've lost 60lbs over the course of nine months (45 of those in a three month period) and it's still slowly going down.

Also, swimming is a good way to exercise your whole body and burn fat without building too much muscle.

Also, I've come to the startlingly simple realisation that I'm not doing this for other people to accept me as a woman, but for me to accept myself as one (which was a bit of an epiphany, if I'm honest). And I think that's a big step along the way. I don't really see how two years is going to make much difference in the changes that take place, particularly as we're far enough past puberty that we're about as male as we're going to get. Maybe if it were a twenty year gap or something then there may be different factors, but I'm not sure that short a wait will affect too much.

Certainly it would be easier on your state of mind to know that you had provision in place to go through with everything, and not have the stress of being in a limbo type situation whilst you save up for the next step.

One thing I would say though, and I've been thinking about it a lot lately, is that if you undergo this with the primary goal of showing, or proving to other people that you are a woman, and blending in seemlessly with the world around you as your chosen gender... then whatever changes the entire process may make to your physiology, it won't be enough, at least mentally. But if you approach the journey with the ultimate goal of being able to look at yourself in the mirror and finally say "Yes, I am now the woman I always should have been." And feel comfortable within your own body, then that would be a much more beneficial stance to take.

And speaking personally, I think that by adopting this viewpoint, whatever changes will or will not happen to me during transition... will make me who I am, not necessarily who I would like people to see (because I don't have that magical "complete and total womanhood" wand to wave).

I think what you have to ask yourself is what changes you actually want, and if they're achievable, before deciding if the increased timescale will make a difference to them.

*hugs*

I wish you luck with whatever you decide, Yip. And apologise for rambling on.

Quote from: Yip on June 26, 2008, 10:01:17 AM
I take it FTM's have many many tricks for hiding things could I employ this in my work environment
to increase my odds of keeping to my 3-4 year delay in outing myself?, Or would 3-4 years not
have as big of change as to worry too much about it at my age?, I have work gear, long
work pants long steeves, helmets boots, I spend alot of my time alone.

I am in similar situation and recently started a topic about hiding your development while on HRT
for a long time. https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,37810.0.html

Basicly, if you need to hide things for several years, you wil certanly get strange looks, but things that
HRT has very little effect on (faciial hair and voice) can than halp you still present as male.
On the other hand breasts are gonna be very difficult to hide especially during warm summer days.
I strongly advise against brest binding bescause it can demage breasts that are still forming.
It might work fine for FTM who will have breasts removed sonner or later, but MTF need their breasts
all their life and should do all they can to prevent any demage or disease.

Nothings 100% decided, I'm just worried as far as I know the point where your
body starts to struggle making the changes I'm going to ask it for, is around 40 years.
Human growth hormone levels drop. I take it the levels of HGH will be lower in 4 years also,
Since it can take several years to truly see your full potential. I really don't want the
gap between starting and 4 O to be very close. In fact if its true I'm thinking of having a
cut off of at 37 which point I make a stick or stay decision no turning back no matter what
male or female even if it kills me.

But work will have issues, I have five options to deal with work of varying pleasantness,
But ether way I think i'd prob be breaking new ground for the transgender community if
I choose to stick it out and fight...yay

Now that i'm a little into the (early stage) plan though i'm beginning to have issues to worry about
such as the HGH one above, I'm also beginning to worry about if I have the strength to do it
Within one day my confidence rises and plummets over this. I'm scared really.. its literally a
rock and a hard place. I'm reading what people are saying who are on HRT for a few months and they
seem to gain a new look on things it seems to me they gain the clearity to know if
they are on the right path or not.  I sure could use that and if only what 2 months
is this distressing I'm worried about 3-4 years, I'm beginning to think maybe I don't have
the choice to make a generous time table at my convenience as wished.

So if any of those on HRT could tell me, was sooner better for you?, Did you have to delay
for reasons such as work etc not being rdy to come out publicly or didn't want to be on
HRT and risk early discovery because of it. When you look back was the delay worth it?.

I think personally I could reduce alot of my stress and answer my doubts
if I could somehow start HRT earlier then planned IF I was able to keep it mostly to myself for some time.
I've been living as a male for 29 year's now the possibility of wearing the mask part time for a few years
doesn't seem so bad as having it on all the time like right now...

When I think about it I am doing it for myself which is why the possibility of being myself
in a limited way for a few years and being who I was at work etc for awhile isn't going to bother me.
Its just risk of early outting vs stress vs price of delay, thats bothering me.


Did anyone who went HRT but wasn't rdy to be outed find the risk and trouble
of covering it was worth it in the long run?.




Oh ty just mod my post since you posted while I was doing it hehe!

Yes binding was a question I had  thank you for that, well I'll be wearing kinda thick (think denim) like
work clothing at work jackets over that, full length arm's and legs , I think this will help me a great deal, I'm also
alone most of the time.  Yes I guess if the day came and I actually had breasts I couldn't hide anymore
Its prob time to be happy about it and come out.

facial hair You know I've despised my male body hair so much, that It never EVER crossed my mind to use it
to an advantage!!....

SEE now i'm glad I asked the question!!

Its better to start hormones as soon as you can, because testosterone will continue masculising your body even after puberty.  However, the older you are, the less significant the effect of delaying is, so at 29, it shouldn't make too much difference if you wait even 3 years.
The effects of oestrogen/progesterone also decrease with age, but again if your around 30, delays won't be too drastic.

Its true that its a lot harder to lose weight after starting hrt.  Basically your metabolism slows down to that of a female (thats partly why daily calorie needs are lower for females).

Also you're right about the effects of hrt taking years, though 1 year is easily enough for noticable changes.
Its possible to still pass as male, but everybody develops differently so its very difficult to predict if you'll pass or not.

Hope this helps in someway  , and good luck with whatever you decide
hugs
jenny

Well my main concern was delaying even more would affect what I could achieve
but, from what your all saying its prob ok from now till mid 30's so thats good.

I guess then its more can I wait longer myself then!!. spend a few more years as is...

But I could go halfway, hmmm  guess all I can do is when the day comes I'm happy
with my fitness,  I can reassess the schedule ... but I am starting to think the risk
and annoyance of covering it up might be worth it to start a year sooner..
I mean its only 2 roughly months and I want to snap and risk it all so I'm
probably going to be seriously dying to start something anything after a year or so.

As for hiding stuff Yip,

It's really not that hard hehe.  Just wear some loose shirts and stuff and that should do the trick for you.  I don't really get mixed up at all or anything and I'm like. . . almost 10 months in right now. 

A well thought out plan is always good though, but maybe meanwhile if you can you can start doing therapy and try to take some t-blockers or something so you're body won't get anymore masculine.  I know it's probably already been said but I didn't have time to read all the replies so sorry if this is a repeat.

Good luck with everything.

Quote from: Yip on June 27, 2008, 01:20:36 AM
I guess then its more can I wait longer myself then!!. spend a few more years as is...

That's gonna be real tough.  I found it harder and harder not being able to start hrt, the longer I waited.  I managed to hide from the truth for like 20 years, but once I started accepting who i really was it was horrible to put of dealing with it.  I see why you're planning to wait and its gonna make things easier when you do transition, but it's gonna be hell having to pretend that you're something that you're not.

Quote from: Annwyn on June 27, 2008, 12:28:26 PM
Why wait?  Every day you wait is a day you'll never get back.

Yeah this is tearing me up inside, IF I can keep it to myself for a decent period I'm most likely going to
just snap and start as soon as I consider myself fit enough to start, I think my work gear could be a real
bonus heres, its baggy and long, I'm giving myself 1 year to get my fitness to a level that I'm happy with.
(If I don't do this, I'm betting I'll really regret it later)

From the responses here I take it I may not have that hard of a time starting early and just concealing it for a period.
Given the gear I'd be wearing is perfect for it.   

and your right frankly every day sucks as is , just having something changing would be a huge
event for me. Crumbs even ANYTHING!!

I really don't think you shopuld worry that much about hiding it...
On the other hand, you havent mentioned your height weight and other things...
Are you already in female norms in that way?

As for the breasts, you know it takes many years to reach full breast development,
and some transwoman have modest development even many years into HRT.
On the other hand, the wors thing is to be precieved as "guy with the boobs",
and yet there are many men suffering from gynecomastia, so i really don't see how
could that be a problem for you especially considering nature of your work.

On the other hand, it may sound i am overly pro-HRT, but at the moment i am in
a position where i desperately feel the need to start HRT myself, so my view may not
be very objective...

Best wishes either way

Quote from: Annwyn on June 27, 2008, 08:32:12 PM
That makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.  Being on hormones will not effect your weight loss.  In fact, in your attempts to lose weight you'll put on muscle easier with all the testosterone in your system which will then be even harder to lose once you want it gone.

So taking hormones that decrease your metabolism, and that have listed side effects of weight gain don't make it harder?  And muscle mass, which decreases with inactivity, particularly when theres very low testosterone in your system is harder to get rid of than fat?
I'm sorry but i'm really struggling to believe you 

Quote from: Annwyn on June 27, 2008, 08:32:12 PM
If, as is most likely the case, that you think you need more time to think about if this is what's really right for you then just say so.  The longer you make excuses the longer you won't ever be able to get a straight answer out of yourself.

Aside from the fact your trying to speak for her which i really dislike, Yip has already explained her reasons for delaying.  You can't deny having things planned out, and getting finances sorted out first, doesn't make transition easier.  Nothing Yip has said sounds like excuses to me.

Annwyn the whole point of my post was over starting sooner then planned...

You don't know where I live or the environment that I'm working in.
I have no one like me that I know of, Nor do I know anyone who
works in the industry I'm in ever doing this.

Doing it right now,  would mean I'd be struggling far more
fitness wise later, which just may impact how fast I can do it
later on.  (oh I'm sry miss yip you need 4 more kg's lost for SRS I'll
reschedule it another 6 months.. ) 

That crap is not going to happen If it means being fit enough from
the start.

Being uncovered early has employment risk's, losing the very job
I need to do it would be great wouldn't it.  Thats why
I'm being careful and asking things like how hard is it to cover
for a decent period.  If it kills my job then I want a few years
of money put aside to finish the work no matter what.

If someone said I could be a women today just say yes.
I'll scream YES!! possibly tear there shirt off in the excitment and drag
them down the hallway getting to where ever I needed to go
without hesitation but being realistic here.
Its a process thats going to be hard and I can't see
how just jumping in can make it work out better for me.
no matter how much I'd like too.

Once I start there is no going back, And I'm the type
of person who wont do something without a plan
and a backup plan to make sure it succeeds even
if the worst thing I can imagine happens.

3 years time i'd have the money to do a full transition
whether I lost my job or not, I could complete it.
That was the orig plan, this post was to see if I could
at least start HRT a little earlier and see if the risk vs some relief +
getting some years of changes happening sooner is worth it.

I don't know how this can be seen as holding out etc I just
do not want to destroy my one shot at this.. surely destroying
my one shot at a transition would be more devastating then
anything else to my life.

Annwyn if you bothered to even read these posts, It might cross
your mind that having some muscle for longer then wished wouldn't
actually be a problem for me....in fact I could use that

No I mean fitness issues that affect your ability to have operations etc.

I'm trying not to lose my temper at you so I'm just going to say this.

You have absolutely no idea what conditions I'm going to be under
while doing this. IT IS in my interest to plan it well, IT IS in my interest
to keep it to myself for as long as I can.

Quote from: Annwyn on June 28, 2008, 07:56:16 AM
Well over half the people who rush into gyms across the nation with weight loss goals are women.  The ones that stick around for more than 3 months are successful.  Funny that you have a hard time believing me when hundreds to thousands of women in every major city in the world are living evidence for you.

Huh? Thats got nothing to do with what i said.  What I said was that weight-loss is harder after starting hormones, I never said its not possible for woman to lose weight.  As a personal trainer i'd presume that even you could accept that men and women are different in terms of excercise/nutritional needs.
I'll admit, that I'm no expert, i was just surprised that muscle was harder to get rid of.  But i'll take your word for it.

Annwyn, you have been coming across very aggresively and judgemental in all your posts on this thread, and I really don't like it.  Try reading what Yip has said before criticising.
And you really don't need to list a bunch of qualifications i haven't heard of to hammer home a point.

Quote from: shanetastic on June 27, 2008, 09:54:10 AM

A well thought out plan is always good though, but maybe meanwhile if you can you can start doing therapy and try to take some t-blockers or something so you're body won't get anymore masculine.  I know it's probably already been said but I didn't have time to read all the replies so sorry if this is a repeat.

Sorry seems we got off topic a little,  T-blockers , So you think that even if I cant start HRT as early as wished I could at least stop any more male changes.
But at 29 isnt it too late for me in that way?. I pretty much figured I'm going to have to have surgery at some point too ... correct these things.

Would blocking it now really make a difference, my bones are set, Ok I see muscle development would slow down. But would it be worth it?, I do need to keep this to myself
for a decent amount of time frankly looking a little androgynous for a period is acceptable for me if it keeps doubt in peoples minds for longer until ready.
But besides muscles is there something that a T-Blocker at this point would help with?.

I have another question on HRT i'm gona post another topic on it but its similar to this.

Quote from: Yip on June 29, 2008, 08:49:24 AM
Would blocking it now really make a difference, my bones are set, Ok I see muscle development would slow down. But would it be worth it?, I do need to keep this to myself
for a decent amount of time frankly looking a little androgynous for a period is acceptable for me if it keeps doubt in peoples minds for longer until ready.
But besides muscles is there something that a T-Blocker at this point would help with?.

There is still some masculinisation though not as much as in your teens or twenties, it does depend a lot on your body though so its not possible to say how much difference it'll make.

T-Blockers would also reduce libido and stop spontaneous erections and sperm production ceases, which is a pretty good reason for taking them if that bothers you, though some TS can live with it.  Your unmentionables shrink in size which makes them easier to hide, though it may cause problems for surgeons in terms of amount of material if you take them a long time before surgery (nobody seems to agree on the importance of this though, as far as i can tell).
There is also a slight feminisation caused by T-blockers.
Can't think of anything else of the top of my head, but probably missed something!

If your main concern is passing as male for as long as possible, then t-blockers shouldn't cause you any problem with that.

This is prob flying waaay off topic, But thinking about what could change in bones with T-blocker...

Well what the hell,  bones might be set for me by now but our cartilage etc grows nose ears. What effect does HRT have on
these things. I know in the end the nose etc needs surgery but does HRT have any effect on the nose ears etc at all?.
Did the skin changes make it different does it slow down in growing etc?.

Sorry If my responses start slowing down, I've had major pc probs.

hi Yip,

I believe that planning is good but don't over plan either (meaning dont panic too much).  in short, hrt is great but hormones will not make you a woman - at least not entirely and certainly not over night.  that is, you can probably pass as a male for a very long time if you really want to.

from experience, the largest change is breast development, which are usually relatively easy to disguise with correct clothing.  the change that is more noticeble is facial hair to which hormones will have little or no effect on.  You will need laser for that, and that you can do at your own pace whenever you feel you are reade.  In my case, people did commented (very positively) to my younger and cleaner apearance, and despite laser treatment, still look as mainly as intended - because of masculine clothing and short male haircut.

of course is entirely your decision, just wanted to give my 2 cents.  in my case i regret each day, not having started earlier.

and remember:  "life is what haappens to you while you are busy making other plans"....John Lennon

One effect of increasing masculinization with age is your skin will get rougher. How much will happen in 2-3 years i don't know but admitidly probably not much. As for hiding hrt effects Ive been on for 5months and passing in public as male is still sadly very easy. A baggy shirt will cover up anything in the A cup range easily. Now genetics have a huge degree to play in your development and its pretty much universaly agreed your chest size is going to be about the same as your moms. So if your mom is only an A or B then your not gonna ahve much to hide for quite awhile. If however your mother is a DD then HRT may pose more risk of outing you. As for metabolism since starting HRT mine slowed down a little bit but not to much however I have an exteremly fast metabolism anyway. So to really notice it has to be slowed down quite a lot. One other thing is male pattern baldness runs in your family then you could def consider going on a DHT blocker early

If you're planning to wait, I would seriously suggest that you go on an anti-androgen and DHT blocker in the meantime. Past your mid-20's the male body gets ... coarser fairly quickly, but you can nip that in the bud to some extent and buy yourself the time you need. I did the same back in London for a while. One can't do this indefinitely - you need hormones in your body to maintain bone-density and heart-health, amongst a host of other things, but yeah, a year or two is okay. Just be aware that some anti-androgens to cause mild breast-growth.

ADDED: I was about 28 when I went to the UK. Initially I left it hoping to find a therapist and the like first, but eventually I had to concede that not doing anything was harming me, mentally as well as physically. So I decided to start anti-androgens while I kept looking. When I did start estrogen, things happened very quickly for me, I suppose because my body was primed for it, so I was able to pass very well by about 4 months. I'm 30 now, and have been on estrogen for about 9 months.

~Simone.