My favorite philosopher and author is Ayn Rand. She said it best, to explain this hackers behavior, Haters of the good. The good stand as a testament to there lack of anything worthwhile, talent, originality, whatever. They lash out at those who are better than they are. Her recipe for dealing with them. Don't validate! The passage from one of her books, "The Fountain Head" best descibes a proper response.

And I am paraphrasing here. When the character Tooey meets the hero Roark at the site of a construction that Roark designed but had been corrupted. Tooey tells Roark I am the one that has done this. I used my words and my influence to corrupt your work and to bring you down. I have this power over you. What do you think of me?

Roark replys with six little words which leaves Tooey speechless and then walks away.

"I don't think of you at all."

Let us do the same with this hacker.

Cassie

Quote from: Charlotte on May 23, 2005, 11:48:47 AM
All hackers are sad people. They cant do something themselves or dont like something so they ruin it for all.  They are bullies, pure and simple...

Sorry, but I just had to comment on this statement.  I thought long and hard about this statement and realized that, quite frankly, it's of a similar caliber of saying "transgendered people are just perverts".  Though i'm not what you'd call a hacker, I do know a little about..."curcumventing software"...  and have known several people who were "hackers" who were in fact some of the most decent people i've known.  While I do not condone THIS hacker's behavior by any means, I feel that they should not be harassed as a whole.  Any more so than any group(s) should be lumped together and persecuted as a whole.  Not all hackers write virii, crash servers, steal identities, etc.  Sorry if I'm out of line for saying this...

Quote from: Kaycee on August 10, 2005, 04:17:34 PM
  and have known several people who were "hackers" who were in fact some of the most decent people i've known.

Decent does not describe anyone who takes over, defiles, invades or goes into the working of anothers space, property or website---PERIOD.

my point is, simply, not all hackers do that or are like that

Allow me to elaborate, as apparently my point was not made clear. 

A "Hacker" is not defined as someone who:  steals onfo, crashes systems, commits identity theft, writes and spreads virii, etc.

A "hacker" IS someone who is adept at and enjoys playing with computers.  Hackers are PEOPLE.  There are good and bad, just as with anything else. 

"Hacker" describes a person with an ability.  Not how they use it.  Heres another example.  "Sniper".  Snipers kill people, or at least hurt them, right?  However, a police sniper is a far cry from a rogue sniper just indescriminately killing or hurting innocent people for no reason.  Super powers do not make you a hero or a villain.  How you use your abilities does.

Many hackers work for reputable and sometimes huge national companies such as microsoft or IBM.  The media has poisoned the definition of a hacker, sensationalized it to make it more marketable.  Much the same way Jerry Springer and other tabloid talk shows have corrupted the public view of transgendered people.  in a fundamental sense, saying "hackers are bad mean people" is no different than saying "transexuals are gay and crossdressers are perverts".  Both are statements derrived from ignorance.  Being a noob hacker myself, I took very personally any and all hate-related statements slandered towards hackers as a whole, as well as finding it insanely ironic that such uneducated statements were made in a section of a forum specifically dedicated to discussing similar statements being made about transgendered people.  That sounded really complicated.  Basically, I thought it was dumb that a part of society who wants to be treated fairly with accurate conceptions, was not treating another group fairly, based on misconceptions.  I was personally offended, and felt the need to set the record straight.  I'm sure many of you would have done the same in a similar situation. 

BTW, a person who did what they did to this place is called a "cracker"

hacker

n 1: someone who plays golf poorly 2: a programmer who breaks into computer systems in order to steal or change or destroy information as a form of cyber-terrorism [syn: cyber-terrorist, cyberpunk] 3: a programmer for whom computing is its own reward; may enjoy the challenge of breaking into other computers but does no harm; "true hackers subscribe to a code of ethics and look down upon crackers" 4: one who works hard at boring tasks.

Someone who walks into my house without invitation, is breaking the law wether or not they do anything.  The same applies to a website.  I don't particularly care what name is used.

Comparing those of us who have no choice to those who make a concsious choice just does not wash.

hacker n. [originally, someone who makes furniture with an axe] 1. A
   person who enjoys exploring the details of programmable systems and how
   to stretch their capabilities, as opposed to most users, who prefer to
   learn only the minimum necessary. 2. One who programs enthusiastically
   (even obsessively) or who enjoys programming rather than just theorizing
   about programming. 3. A person capable of appreciating hack value. 4.
   A person who is good at programming quickly. 5. An expert at a
   particular program, or one who frequently does work using it or on it;
   as in `a Unix hacker'. (Definitions 1 through 5 are correlated, and
   people who fit them congregate.) 6. An expert or enthusiast of any kind.
   One might be an astronomy hacker, for example. 7. One who enjoys the
   intellectual challenge of creatively overcoming or circumventing
   limitations. 8. [deprecated] A malicious meddler who tries to discover
   sensitive information by poking around. Hence `password hacker',
   `network hacker'. The correct term for this sense is cracker.

True hackers resent being tagged with such inaccurate definitions as the one you have presented, and refuse to accept it as such.  You are pushing, forcing even, a definition that is just not true.  Your comparison to an uninvited guest in your house is moot, as it is still based on the misconception that that is what hackers do.

Discrimination is discrimination, regardless if it is in reference to a reality or a choice.   Choice or no choice makes no defference.  Discrimination is wrong - period.

Is it so impossible that maybe hackers arent what you thought they are?

Hi Kaycee, Welcome to Susan's

You have to understand the bitterness here towards these things.  This is a website where people who have a similiar past and a similiar problem can get together for support and to learn about themselves.

This site, because of the issues it deals with, was brought down by a mallicious person who was familiar with the software that these boards used.  Most of society would call that person a hacker (Kevin Mitnick also broke into systems illegally.  Although he stole information and published it from over 60 different systems and was charged with computer fraud in 2 different states (North Carolina and California) he was called a 'hacker').  If you want to call it a cracker that's fine.  The truth is it doesn't matter.  It's a word.  There isn't much sense in argueing over the word and whether it is correct or accurate.  What people have a problem with is the behavior.

Gaining access to a system through the use of a software development flaw with the sole purpose of destroying and / or damaging that system, is illegal.  That behavior is what everyone here is denouncing.

In some circles that is called hacking, although not all 'hacking' is bad as your definition shows.  The original computer definition referred to experts with the UNIX operating system and their code level manipulation of the Kernel using C to accomplish some pretty neat feats.  However, hacking can also refer to the illegal access of a computer system to purposefully destroy or illegally access data.

Cracker came about from "Password Crackers" who would get the /etc/passwd file and run it through a dictionary program.  It would encrypt the first word of the dictionary and try and match all of the passwords in the file, and so on and so on.  Because, as I am sure you are aware, crypt() encryption can't be unencrypted in any reasonable amount of time.  So the words would have to be encrypted and then matched.  The term "Cracker" was originated there.

The problem here is that he didn't try and discover sensative information by 'poking around'  The person who did this, to my understanding, did the following things.

1. Researched The Software that these boards Operate on.
2. Actively searched for, and found, software flaws and exploits for this particular software package.
3. Used those exploits to gain administrative access to these boards.
4. Used that administrative access to destroy this particular site.

QuoteWhile I do not condone THIS hacker's behavior by any means, I feel that they should not be harassed as a whole.

I agree whole-heartedly with this statement.  I think the heart of many problems is that people, all people, have a tendency to group people together under a 'word' and then try and figure out what exactly that 'word' means.  It doesn't matter, it never did and it never will.  The problem is not hackers, it is anyone who sets out and attempts to destroy things they don't understand or that they feel are different.

Regardless, it really doesn't matter.  It is the BEHAVIOR we are denouncing, not the word
If you wish it called cracking, that's fine, if you want it called hacking, that's fine too.  It doesn't matter, what matters is the behavior that clearly shows hate, ignorance, and fear.

With respect,
Jessica

even apart from all the consideration about whether something is or isn't breaking the law, breaking the law isn't necessarily a bad act in and of itself.  suggesting it always is is the same as suggesting the law is absolutely perfect and flawless in every way... it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that that's far from possible, and just as many times further from true.

it's the ol' "good vs evil" thing rearing its ugly head yet again.  where do you think these hackers (as in, the one that crashed this site - not as in, all hackers) come from, mentally?  let's think... "sexual organs = sex.  trannies = wrong with sexual organs = wrong with sex.  wrong with sex = pervert."  is that so much different from "hacking = trespassing.  trespassing = against law.  against law = wrong... hacking = wrong."?  no.  the same oversimplification, the same "good vs evil", "my way or the highway", "right or wrong", "black and white", "let's pretend that everything which isn't simple isn't real" way of thinking.

to say, "all hackers are bullies", i can understand.  you look at the image of hackers that you have.  you think only of people the kind of which do what was done to the susans boards.  you fail to see the other side - so you assume there isn't one - and the side you see are all bullies, plain and simple, so that's what you post up.  understandable.  what is just plain auto-defensive, to do with utter dumb pride rather than actual valid argument, is to attempt to defend the statement after that "other side" is specifically pointed out to you.

don't be embarrassed - don't think i'm tarring you with a bad brush.  we all do the "dumb pride" thing.  i've done it plentymuch.  dumb pride is rife and entirely a natural response - but it never gets anyone anywhere.  so what do you do?  1) recognise when it happens.  2) cease doing it when you recognise it.  i only hope i've helped you do that by pointing it out on this occasion.

 Basically in life you have some people who are creaters, some people who are destroyers, and there are some people who are selfish users.  Talented computer people created the internet and allow many others to enjoy a freedom they had never known. 

 Then came the destroyers and users who created viruses and the lot to mess up that system for their own personal agendas.  The internet can be used for good or evil as we see with the terrorists or it can be used by people such as us to try and better understand ourselves.   

When this person tried to hack into this sight to mess it up,  this person attacked our personal freedom and our search for sanity and search for self. 

 Debating over what this individual should be called by his function which was hacking does us no good.   This individual was one of the selfish destroyers who got some sort of a kick out of messing this sight up.   

Hacking is an activity by which we lable someone who does it a hacker.      This person was a destroyer who had some talent for hacking, so if we need to label this person label this person by  the intent of their act which was to destroy and label them a destroyer.

What an ***hole (I'm sorry but I couldn't help it).  Unfortunately there will always be "people" like this individual whose only goal is to try to offend others in order to feel worthy.  I feel very sorry for people like that; only God knows what kind of unhappy life he's had.  Poor thing, he needs immediately.

tinkerbell 

Quote from: Laura Elizabeth Jones on June 23, 2006, 01:49:49 PM
Yeah, thats true, even though I hate the things that some people do, I can't but help but feel sorry for them. Because their just wasting their life by doing things like this. You should use what little time you have on this earth being happy and doing good things. Not being malicious or destructive like so many people choose to be.

Amen!

Chaunte

I don't understand why ppl hate us so much. I don't belive we are a personal threat to anyone. Just because they don't understand what it is to be TG. I simply can't understand why ppl have to hate at all. Everywere I go I am the victim of hate in some form. The way they look at you. Just my two cents worth.

I love this site
Keep up the good work Susan

Owen

love being female

It's because we're different. We don't live up to the norms they expect from us, so their response is based in dislike and distrust. I wish they understood what it's like to be in our situation.

It is good that this site and board are here.

Quote from: Owen on June 24, 2006, 10:23:22 PM
I don't understand why ppl hate us so much. I don't belive we are a personal threat to anyone. Just because they don't understand what it is to be TG. I simply can't understand why ppl have to hate at all. Everywere I go I am the victim of hate in some form. The way they look at you. Just my two cents worth.

I love this site
Keep up the good work Susan

Owen

love being female

I think people hate and fear what they do not understand.  While you and I know that being transgendered is simply how we are, I would dare say that most people have a difficult time trying to comprehend why someone would choose to live as the opposite gender.

Everyone here knows that this is no more a choice than choosing our eye color.  It is what it is.  Few people outside the LGBT community really understand this.

So here we are minding our own buisness.  People around us look and don't understand - their understanding is a blank page waiting for the first bit of information.  No one wants to be the first to ask honest questions because they don't want to embarrase themselves.  All it takes is one person to effectively articulate their own fears and suddenly fear runs rampent.  People start to MSU (Making Stuff Up) so that their blank page is no longer blank.

Fear does not fall to facts and truth very easily.  To quote Dr. Leonnard McCoy, "In the battle between Good and Evil, Evil usually wins unless Good is very, very careful."  Fear is Evil's ultimate weapon.

If we are able to fill people's blank pages with truth and understanding before fear gets it's turn, we can win the day.  ANd by winning I mean that we can increase acceptance by the general public of who we are.  We can increase acceptance of everyone who is ... well ... different!

The one thing I have noticed is that everyone who has successfully transitioned on the job has walked into an office loaded with compassion and information to fill those blank pages of understanding.  Not every manager is accepting.  Not every member of our family has been able to stay with the same employer.  We won't win evey battle, but we will win the war against fear and ignorance.

I really admire our brothers and sisters here who have left their jobs to find new employment in their true gender.  It gives me hope, and fills me with determination to succeed.  Sharing our stories of triumph gives everone else hope.  Its how all of us can pay it forward.


I'll step off my soapbox now.  Sorry for the editorial.  Maybe I have a future as a columnist!

Chaunte

Quote from: Chaunte on June 25, 2006, 07:03:14 AM

I'll step off my soapbox now.  Sorry for the editorial.  Maybe I have a future as a columnist!

You go, girl!  Well spoken!

Karen

Quote from: Susan on May 23, 2005, 02:23:25 AM
This website was a victim of a hate crime. We were targeted by an individual for hacking on the basis that we ran a transgender site and were running a specific software which this individual knew an exploit for. Many of you knew this much so here's the rest of the story as Paul Harvey would say.

On Wednesday the 18th of  May 2005 at around 21:15:31 a referral came in from the Google search engine. The person in question searched for PhpBB transgender forums. He of course found as one of the first entries Susan's Place. We have after one of the TG support sites in existence the longest.  He visited the site several times then using a software bug edited a profile granting himself administrative access in the process. After establishing the access and looking around a bit the person in question decided to delete all the forums we have tended to over these many years. He then created one which said.

Jobby Jabbers = Dung Pushers
FREAKS - PUT YER WIFES KNICKERS BACK N DONT GET THEM ALL SKIDS

Then using the style sheet editor he made the text size super huge and messed around with some colors and stuff.

You have to ask yourself what motivated a person to come and do something of this nature to a website which clearly had never harmed him. After all he is the one who sought us not the other way around. I answer that question with one word, hate. This individual attacked transgender people either because he is one and is trying to repress it, it could be because he may think he on the side of all that is righteous and holy, or he may have simply been trying to get his jollies. In the end unless he tells us we have no way of knowing. No other motivation can be found for this heinous act.

There is no way to gain respect, love, good will, with either mankind nor a supreme deity by doing hateful things. In the end you just hurt yourself as we could care less. Good day.

Funny that someone feels less "freak" than us and does this kind of things; but I guess violent attacks whether digital or in rl are always more justified than crossing genders.
We should respond him back with "greetings" from our abundant trans hackers