Thank you Gill.  I do want to go to the beach soon.  The only draw back is that now that it is Summer, the beach is crawling with people to all hours of the night.  Usually when I like to meditate down there is around the Fall or early spring when it seems more secluded.  But just being there would help.  This coming Saturday Marco and I are going to go to Avenal, California (I've lived here all my life and never heard of it), but that is where my dad is.  He's my only biological family member that hasn't turned his back on me.  I haven't seen him in over a year.  That situation is an entire novel in itself, but this will be the first time Marco meets him.  It will be nice to get out of the apartment and just drive.

I think I will go and send my daughter an email and let her know I love her.

Thanks again!
Pam

Pam, this is my first post in this forum, and of course neither of us know each other or anything about the other's lives or backgrounds.  But I have found two things you and I have in common already.

We both love our men dearly and we both have had problems with self injury and suicidal ideation/attempts.  I have a long time behind me in recovery from self injury, and I can tell you the underlying reason for you feeling you need to do this, isn't because of Marco or this situation.  It is much deeper than that and the feeling are being stirred by the pain of watching your loved one hurt, and the pain that you go through walking beside him.  I understand since you dont know me, if you're hesitant to accept my offer, but I am offering an ear and advice anytime you feel like harming yourself.  You, as others have said, do not deserve more pain.  Life and this society will provide you more than you can imagine and provide it free of charge.  Still I tender my offer.

I am hoping I can learn from all of you, how to help my Love, Gregori.  He has just joined the F2M section last night while I was at work.

He is at the end of his rope, and is shutting me out more all the time because he's said to me this morning, "how many times do you need to hear I'm miserable?"  "how many times do you need to hear I hate having breasts?"  He said, I've heard it so many times, I can only reassure him with the same things I've said time and time again, and he's still getting emotionally worse.  So, I guess I need to know how I can help him at this point.  I know all of you understand without me even having to speak, but I want to help, and I want him to be able to talk to me, even if it's painful.  I want him to know I'm there, will always be there and will love him.

Please help me learn what to do?

Inga

Hello Inga!

My name is Kelly, and I am the SO of Little Lynn (who is MtF).  I will do my best on this one:

If you want Gregori to know that you love him you'll just have to keep telling him, again and again and again that you do.  Until it sinks in. Which can take a long time for some people, especially if they do not love themselves.

I don't know if he is already seeing a therapist, but if not, it would be a really good idea to find one (which from personal experience I understand is easier said than done).  Another thing you can do for him, is to maybe sit down with him and discuss a plan of action that will lead to Gregori ultimately being happy (or at least comfortable)  Sometimes just mapping out your goals step by step helps to relieve some of the distress of not already being there.

Example: 1) Begin researching therapists 2) Make an appointment with one  3) Follow up therapy with HRT 

By breaking a large goal down into small, manageable goals it will seem less overwhelming in the long run.  You can add deadlines to your goals if you really want to, but the number one rule with this is that you're allowed to worry only about each step at a time. You are also allowed to modify your steps as you go in case of unforseen circumstances. So this will give you and Gregori complete power over your situation and the joint effort should bring you two closer. Get it?

This worked for me, and I hope it will work for you and Gregori, too.

By the way, welcome to Susan's!

Hi Pam,
I know I have not been here as often as I was. Also It has been a while since I injected some in put on your life's events you have been dealing with. If I say something here that you disagree with just disregaurd it and take only what you feel works and is food for thought on how else to cope and identify your issues.

I hear when reading your post a couple issues you should look into.
1) You miss the mother to children connection you had with your children. Because this is such a vital part of our being.(women, mothers who have been and then find it stripped away) One suggestion might be to volunteer at a church daycare for now. You don't have to go into all you have been going through. You just need the connection of playing with and doing thingwith and for children. You need to feel the connection this is maybe a way to meet that need. Granted they are not your kids but the are children needing TLC and you have it to give.  If not a church one a private one maybe through the parks and recreation programs through the summer are most all ways looking for people to help out. Even a Summer Bible School program would probably be more than happy for a helping hand.Your Library probably has a childrens reading program where you can read to small children. What ever avenue you find to meet this need it does two things. Volunteering is giving of ones self and transfering your concentration to that action is good for taking your mind off all the hurt you have been dealing with. A person needs this to heal from hurts too. They need to put it out of thier mind and heart. To really move on in life one often needs to start new beginnings with new things of this sort too.

2)Past multiple pains built up over years are often very hard to deal with even when a person leaves and seperates themselves from the one dishing out the abuse. When it was that extensive for that long it is only normal for it not to go away just because you moved that person out of your life as much as you could. Even though you feel it is the best benifit in loosing you ex... There is still a ripping and tearing in your being, a gieving of that loss even if he was bad to you. You had a life together for what it was worth. You had children together. There was a joining... There must be a severing of those bonds, regaurdless of how much hurt he caused you. The bonds were and are and will be there through those children connecting him to you still. Yes you have hate and anger and those are to be delt with seperately as we shared before in a previous post. It's the bonds you had all those years that you are going to have to deal with grief over.

3) Gill's suggestion for self indulging is so important! You need to take time for you in those ways and in pampering ways too. Take time for a hair or nails day. If you can't offord it right now because of the child support issues? Then with following Kelly's advice on making new friends set up some girl time in someone's home and do each other's nails. Shampoo each other's hair. Cook lunch or dinner for each other. (Sorry, Marco not you on this paticular time.) This is for getting to let your hair down with just another girl like you did in highschool time. Also add in a hobby of some sort sewing, knitting, painting, building something and making something usefull.

4) Yes I saved this one for last because it's hard to say the hurtful ones. It's just a thought that crossed my mind as I read through this thread of posts. And all your posts. Here goes...not sure just how it will come out. Where I'm coming from on this... when we find our life's partner somewhere not sure just where...maybe it's the stories and fairy tales... we get the idea that our partner is going to protect us and smight all the bad dragons in our life. Some how we think they are not going to let anything or anyone hurt us any more. They of all people are not supposed to hurt and abuse us in our fantacy image of this life's protector. Your marriage was not like that obivously. Your life with Marco is not like that either and can and will not be for reasons of social stigma and then of course your past marriage and all you bring into this relationship with Marco. Your children, your ex and his parents even your own family. Marco can not fix or protect you from it and this maybe a let down and underneath some of the friction that surfaces now and again. Then on the flip of that coin you can't protect him from any of all the ugly that is dished at Marco from all sides either. You probably feel inadiquit and quilty because of what someone you know says or does. One thing that has help me in the past is "Who's problem is it". I mean you have no controll over other people's mouths and what comes out of them. So there fore don't beat yourself up over those particular times. Only your own words and thoughts and feelings are you responsible for. Only what you do, can you fix if it needs fixing. So don't expect yourself to do more than you should or can. What you can change do so what you can't let it go. Marco knew or does by now what he was going to be facing... not that that will make any of the ugly any less ugly... but you have to move on and not keep missing the hurdle. Go around it if you need to but somehow don't stop and wollow there. It's not healthy as you well know.

Maybe a way to let out the anger you might try... get modeling clay dough. Make things and smash them when they are finished. Why clay dough? because you can use it over and over again. Why model or craft something because you are only being distructive to what you create and it punishes you for the hurt you feel you should have stopped long ago or have no other way of stopping now and think you should. Once you punish your self enough maybe the urge to hurt yourself physically won't be there any more.

Many people here have all ready said don't hurt yourself physically. I will say only this, does it fix the hurt or does it hurt just as bad as it did. Did it make it go away or are the issues still there to face anyway. Physically do only what will fix or resovle to where you can stand the issues. Become active in other's lives and problems making them easier for them and helping them somehow and you won't see your own as such a big mountain anymore. Marco's problems don't count in that step either. This will help on selfworth and the you'll see your to valuble to physically hurt yourself anymore. God doesn't make junk so you must be worth much more than you give yourself credit for. If you can't see Jesus doing it with you...don't do it.

We are leaving for back to the job site for Leah, but I'll try to look in on your post in the next 2 days or 3.

What works use, what doesn't through out and disregaurd like I said earlier.

Smiles, dear friend,

Peggiann

Peggiann:

I am so sorry that I did not catch this post sooner.  My gosh, it has been here for almost a month!  I really appreciate your advice and I do find all of it very applicable and appropriate.  I haven't had contact with my sister for a while and after a big blow up yesterday, we have decided to meet for dinner on Tuesday.  I am going very guarded because I am not really sure that I can trust her because she has been dishonest in the past, but I do want to hear what she has to say.

Thank you so much for taking so much time to offer great words of wisdom to me.


Pam

Not a problem Pam,
How was your dinner with your sister?
Hope all else is going better too.

Smiles,
Peggiann

Pam, I hope things are going better for you. Believe me, I can understand where you're at right now. Back in February of this year, I had what could definitely be considered a breakdown... I have been dealing with clinical depression for 10 years, and in February still had not gotten treatment, when I found out the person I had been dating and incredibly close to was a pedophile and compulsive liar. My whole world was destroyed. I cut myself numerous times, though I had not done that much since I was 17, when the depression was that bad before, and my best friend (who was with me when I discovered the devastating news) had to talk me down from trying to commit suicide (in all honesty, I just wanted to go to sleep and never think about the whole thing again, not die). But I went to the hospital, then to a psychiatrist, and after years of suffering in silence, I got on treatment for my depression. The initial changes took place in a matter of days, and with the support of my family and friends I got through the tough part. By a month later, I was excelling at school (was in my senior year of college) and so happy I couldn't imagine it. Now, six months later, I am doing quite well (despite constant struggles with my parents, as described in my other posts) emotionally, and have a very positive outlook for the future.

The point of all this is, it does get better. There is a light at the end of the tunnel, Pam, and you have many people out here in cyberspace who support you, as well as Marco, whom I can tell from his posts is a good man. The only other thing I can suggest that hasn't been mentioned (I don't think), since you're already in therapy, is that you maybe try to find a support group. I found that very helpful when dealing with my depression... sometimes the ability to commiserate is all you need (or it at least helps things along). In any case, hold on. Don't hurt yourself. You might try what I now do--- boxing. It's a great release, and you do get a bit of that pain that cutting provides, without the injury. Things will get better, though. Just remember you're important, and have great things to contribute to the world. You never know... it's always possible that the world would end without you in it. Anything is possible.

Rafe

looking forward to meeting you and Marco in October

Peggiann:

Thanks for asking about my sister.  Things are going better and we are talking, but the dinner didn't work out because she is awaiting back surgery and is in a lot of pain.  We have planned, though, to meet this coming Tuesday when I fly down here (So. Cal) for a court appearance.  I will have a couple hours to kill in the airport and she is going to come sit with me.  Hope things are going well with you and Leah.  Are things settling down from your travels?

Rafe:

Wow.  I almost cried.  What a horrible thing you have gone through and yet you are such a compassionate and caring individual!!  Depression can be such a debilitating thing and I feel that you can really understand me on this level.  I have attended a support group, but with work and individual counseling, its hard to get into the regular groove, but it does help.  Amy (she goes by Spike on here...Tino's fiance) and I have become really close and she is an awesome source of support to me.  I like the boxing idea!  That would be a great way to get out my aggression.  I have a friend that goes to kick boxing classes at the city.  Maybe I'll sign up with her next time around.  Thanks again for the support and Marco and I are really looking forward to meeting you too.


Pam