QuoteAnd a dishonorable, or less-than-honorable discharge is pretty much a fast ticket to jobless city.

That is a rare situation. Most dishonorable discharges turn into a general discharge after a year. Most gays never make it to military justice they are rejected by classification and do not pass the physical. Thereby never being in the military and are not lying by saying no military experience.

My brother went AWOL during basic training after they told him how to fold toilet paper. He turned himself in after a month was put on KP duty for 3 weeks and given a dishonorable discharge that turned general after a year he now works for the post office. The Government does not care of the circumstances of discharge just how much government experience you have.

He also worked for the NYC police dept. He quit for the better pay at the post office.

QuoteNow they even do it for the janitors.  At every company there is someone who does pay attention, because they lose their job if they mess up.

Yes, like the accountants at AIG.

Quote from article, "Veilleux was sentenced earlier this month to 40 months in prison for sexually assaulting a child."

I feel sorry for the child.  The women in the women's prison might fear Veilleux might sexually assault them since Veilleux still has her male sex organs.

I think its not the fact they have male sex organs... people are reading too much into the 'zomg trans discriminashunz' side...

the person is a convicted sex offender, AND has a penis, in a womens jail.... im sorry, but thats just asking for trouble... if id been one of those women, id have been uncomfortable as hell around them...

in this case the woman sexually assaulted a child and it's little wonder the other women don't want her there.
however, if she were a genetic female pedophile, she'd still be in the women's and the other women would have no say.

I'm sorry, call me cruel but some one that sexually assaults a child does not deserve human rights. For anyone thats been "that child" you know exactly how I feel.

Quote from: eliza beth on December 27, 2008, 06:48:54 PM

Quote from: Nero on December 27, 2008, 06:36:36 PM
in this case the woman sexually assaulted a child and it's little wonder the other women don't want her there.
however, if she were a genetic female pedophile, she'd still be in the women's and the other women would have no say.

I just think there has to be a sensable solution to this problem and since when do inmates have any input into who else is in prison with them? it's not up to them, it's up to the governing body of the prison and I implore them to reconsider their decision here.

I just want to point out that I am not defending pedophiles, only human rights.

oh i was agreeing with you. it's pretty ridiculous that she's considered a legal female everywhere but in prison. of course the other inmates don't like her, but would they like another female pedophile any more? in this case her birth status is being used against her and not her crime.

Quote from: Cami on December 27, 2008, 07:00:14 PM
I'm sorry, call me cruel but some one that sexually assaults a child does not deserve human rights. For anyone thats been "that child" you know exactly how I feel.

yes, but it's not about just this woman. she's a monster, but if she can be carted off to a male prison because of fellow inmate complaints, all transwomen imprisoned in that city are in danger no matter their crime.

I guess thats true. I just can not feel sympathy for for anyone that hurts a child. Its a subject matter that is very close to me and because of it my emotions cloud my logic at times.

In these cases there is no hard and fast rules. Each one usually has a psychological exam and is evaluated in court and by the dept of corrections and put where they think is best. As behavior is evaluated they adjust and change things. Look at Hilton she was put in the prison hospital till things quieted down. As prisoners prove they are trust worthy they are given more privileges if they are not they get some taken away. Prison is to protect the citizens and hopefully correct bad behavior of the guilty. Some correction ideas also try to get restitution for the victims.

It pains me a bit to see that everyone assumes she is truly guilty of molesting someone, given the discriminatory nature of juries and the fact that the molestation supposedly happened in the 1990's.  Something doesn't smell right there.  I can just hear a prosecutor telling the jury that this "perverted transsexual MUST have done this crime, I mean, just LOOK at her/him/it."

When I see the lenient sentences given to those who assault and murder trans women I have to come to the conclusion that getting a fair jury trial for a trans woman is as unlikely as having a trans person's murderer being sent up for life imprisonment.  It may happen, but it sure looks like it doesn't happen all that much.

In light of these circumstances I think that putting this person into a criminal male general population is cruel and unusual punishment.  If she is guilty or not, the incarceration ought to be punishment enough.  The added "enhancement" of beatings and anal rape, while it may make us feel good that "the bastard is getting what he deserves," ought not to be encouraged by a fair and compassionate society.

It also irks me that the female prison's occupants were allowed to use "discomfort" as an excuse to send someone to that sort of torturous punishment.  The whole thing is based on their prejudice and discrimination,  Nothing in the story suggested her behavior in the female prison was less than acceptable.  It was the other prisoner's prejudices that were allowed to rule the situation.

I hope we can get to the point of seeing that, "There but for the grace of the Deity go I" and that news stories ALWAYS need to be taken with a grain of salt before accepting them completely.

hugs & smiles
Emelye

Quote from: Emelye on December 27, 2008, 08:35:21 PM
It pains me a bit to see that everyone assumes she is truly guilty of molesting someone, given the discriminatory nature of juries and the fact that the molestation supposedly happened in the 1990's.  Something doesn't smell right there.  I can just hear a prosecutor telling the jury that this "perverted transsexual MUST have done this crime, I mean, just LOOK at her/him/it."

The fact that the person is serving 40 months after being convicted of raping a child is the telling point here.

Quote from: Emelye on December 27, 2008, 08:35:21 PM
When I see the lenient sentences given to those who assault and murder trans women I have to come to the conclusion that getting a fair jury trial for a trans woman is as unlikely as having a trans person's murderer being sent up for life imprisonment.  It may happen, but it sure looks like it doesn't happen all that much.

Child, adult, black, gay, transwoman or man, doesnt matter, the maximum scentance should be given for murder full stop.

Quote from: Emelye on December 27, 2008, 08:35:21 PM
In light of these circumstances I think that putting this person into a criminal male general population is cruel and unusual punishment.  If she is guilty or not, the incarceration ought to be punishment enough.  The added "enhancement" of beatings and anal rape, while it may make us feel good that "the bastard is getting what he deserves," ought not to be encouraged by a fair and compassionate society.

Unfortunately even amongst prisoners there is a hierachy of crimes, Sexual offences being the worst, Solitary confinement will ensure this person remains without harm.

Quote from: Emelye on December 27, 2008, 08:35:21 PM
It also irks me that the female prison's occupants were allowed to use "discomfort" as an excuse to send someone to that sort of torturous punishment.  The whole thing is based on their prejudice and discrimination,  Nothing in the story suggested her behavior in the female prison was less than acceptable.  It was the other prisoner's prejudices that were allowed to rule the situation.

The needs of the many will always outweigh the needs of the few. The issue is with someone who has been convicted of being a rapist and still has male parts. If full SRS had been carried out, I doubt the issue would have arisen.


Buffy

They were keeping her in isolation in the woman's prison, so that tells me she was not all that safe either.  Prisons are not full of 'good girls gone wrong' they have plenty of woman that are just as cruel, just as violent, just as cold bloded just as pycho as their male counterparts.

Womens prisons are worse than male prisons in many ways... we can be so much more cruel, coniving and devious...
Tbh, i think if she was in isolation in the womens jail, why complaints? why a problem?

And emelye: Why CANT she be guilty? maybe ther is dicrimination, but is it impossible for a transwoman to be guilty of child rape? Transwomen are not innocent, pure, law abiding creatures... its like here on the forum some transwomen assume that all others are equally extreme librals etc...

QuoteIt pains me a bit to see that everyone assumes she is truly guilty of molesting someone

You are presumed innocent until proved guilty. In this country it takes a trail jury of unanimous decision beyond a shadow of a doubt and right to appeal. After that you "are guilty". Now there have been very few mistakes, which have most been corrected. Nothing is absolute but for all practical purposes a guilty person is punished. Where is the compassion for the victim?

Jail is never a nice place. If a person is in danger or dangerous they isolate them the best they can with the resources that the taxpayer allows. Our system is a democratic compromise some would like much harsher treatment.