if he does. why would he bother?  why would we bother?

If God is God (all-everything), then He/She/It does.

There's no surprises for the everlasting gaze

why would god test us, if he already knew what we would do? It wouldnt be called temptation if what we would do was just a concrete set future waiting to happen.

There is not any evidence of eternity. Rational reason works better than beliefs. The Greeks got that one. They thought if there was one god, it started the ball and left the rest to us.

There is no god , you silly girl

There are over six billion gods and goddesses, in my opinion, each in control of their own destiny.

And... here's something to think about... if you're destined to spend eternity somewhere, then where have you already spent eternity? Before you were here?

I believe in reincarnation, so I'll be back anyway.  Next time I hope that I get to be a bio woman.

Janet

Here's how it's supposed to work:

we're supposed to make the choices, but he's psychic so he already knows what those choices will be.

Here's how it is

If God is God, then He is all-knowing
If God is God, then He is all-seeing
If God is God then His life span is or seems to us eternal

Out of this follows:
If God is God then Eternity's a fart joke to him and we inhabit the soundwaves of His Sinusoidal Laughter

Therefore:
If God is not God, then He is a demiurge and worthy of contempt.
or
If God is not God then He doesn't exist.

My response, as always, is what makes a "god" anyways? Why should any being, omnipotent or otherwise, be served like we're its slaves?


Sorry, no thank you.

This is a subject that my wife & I was discussing this past Saturday; just a little history on my back ground I went to seminary at Regent University in Virginia Beach (Pat Robertson's School).  Now I tend to have an Evangelical point of view when it comes to religious matters.  I've heard and studied the belief that God knows who will come to the revaluation of Jesus & those that will pick up their cross and follow Him.  But I think that God sets life before each and every one of us and allows us to choose what we are going to do with that life.  And we must deal with the circumstances of our chosen path through life; I do not think that our future is predetermined.

Quote from: ErickaM on December 30, 2008, 03:26:45 PM
This is a subject that my wife & I was discussing this past Saturday; just a little history on my back ground I went to seminary at Regent University in Virginia Beach (Pat Robertson's School).  Now I tend to have an Evangelical point of view when it comes to religious matters.  I've heard and studied the belief that God knows who will come to the revaluation of Jesus & those that will pick up their cross and follow Him.  But I think that God sets life before each and every one of us and allows us to choose what we are going to do with that life.  And we must deal with the circumstances of our chosen path through life; I do not think that our future is predetermined.

So God doesn't know our future?

Well its always been a very crux issue at the heart of Christianity - because in that religion there is just an extreme line between heaven and hell, and because its your choices that put you there.  Its a pretty unique idea found only in Christianity by the way.  So, if you behave badly (sin) you are knowingly going against god.  If god is omniscient - and that's pretty central to the Judao/Christian conception of god - then if god knows your going to sin, and allows it to happen, then weather your going to hell, or heaven, is predestined. 

You sin, because you always sin, you've always sinned.  The moment is always just that way.

However, that's a real poor way to try to control and dictate people behavior (the end goal of all religions).  You want people to work to do good (like giving to the church) and that is the notion of free will. 

You can't have both.  Though that is claim.

Of course the religious argue that though God is Omniscient god CHOOSES not to know.  Which is right about where I lost my faith.

I don't think so 'cuz it tells us in the Gospels that many are called but few are chosen; if God knew our future then why is so many called?  Also there is one thing that separates us from the rest of creation and that free will and if everything is laid out before our births then why did He give us free will?

Quote from: ErickaM on December 30, 2008, 04:41:20 PM
I don't think so 'cuz it tells us in the Gospels that many are called but few are chosen; if God knew our future then why is so many called?  Also there is one thing that separates us from the rest of creation and that free will and if everything is laid out before our births then why did He give us free will?

But sweetie, isn't God by definition all-seeing and all knowing? That's sure what it seems like as far as I understand these passages:

QuoteActs 15:18 - Known to God are all his works from the beginning of the world. (Note the small "his" - that's a reference to us humans)

and

QuoteIsaiah 46:10 - Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure.

My understanding from this is that God would indeed know what I was going to do before I do it, so really, my free will is an illusion.

Mina.

Can God make a rock so heavy that he can't lift it?
Etc, etc, etc.
Faith doesn't operate on logical principles, so using logic to debate faith is pointless.

More to the point; I can't prove that God does NOT exist, therefore I'm unwilling to claim that he doesn't exist.
I'm 99% sure he doesn't, but that margin of error means that I'm not willing to make the absolute claim:
"God doesn't exist."

I challenge those that claim he does not exist to provide empirical evidence that he doesn't.

Quote from: ErickaM on December 30, 2008, 04:41:20 PM
I don't think so 'cuz it tells us in the Gospels that many are called but few are chosen; if God knew our future then why is so many called?  Also there is one thing that separates us from the rest of creation and that free will and if everything is laid out before our births then why did He give us free will?

it's not that it's laid out per se. it's just that he of course already knows what choices people will make. he knows the future.

Does the author of a book know that a character will die before it happens?
That is, does an author exist in the same time line as the characters in a book?

Quote from: Alyssa M. on December 31, 2008, 03:21:24 AM
Does the author of a book know that a character will die before it happens?
That is, does an author exist in the same time line as the characters in a book?

lovely analogy, Alyssa. 

Quote from: ErickaM on December 30, 2008, 04:41:20 PM
I don't think so 'cuz it tells us in the Gospels that many are called but few are chosen; if God knew our future then why is so many called?  Also there is one thing that separates us from the rest of creation and that free will and if everything is laid out before our births then why did He give us free will?

Well, the normal theology explanation of free will is that he knows but does not make the choice for you. However, by definition God has to know because if he didn't, we would have to introduce the notion that He is imperfect.