Yes, I'm still questioning. I know many of you think of me as male, but I wonder about some things...

Lately I've been feeling male to the point of tears, because for a while there I denied it. But here's the odd thing:

My friends sometimes pick up female vibes, sometimes male vibes from me.

Sometimes I feel more female, sometimes male, but when I feel male, it can be overwhelming.

I decided to try an androgynous look. I did like it at first, it looked cool, but I'm not sure that it feels "right". The more female I dress, the more male I feel, and yes, I still feel very male, but I don't know if I'll feel female in the future, and if I do, if that's just denial.


Is this a case of androgyny? Or is this just some weird form of FTM?



-Merrick

I'm actually doing a similar thing, being able to go back and forth between genders.

Infact I've come out to my family as bi-gendered, even though (like you) I'm more strongly pulled to male than female.

The difference between androgyny and being bi-gendered is that you move back and forth between the genders as you feel compelled to where as an androgynous person constantly feel a mix of both genders or feel like they're neither gender.

Quote from: Osiris on January 07, 2009, 10:58:39 PM
The difference between androgyny and being bi-gendered is that you move back and forth between the genders as you feel compelled to where as an androgynous person constantly feel a mix of both genders or feel like they're neither gender.

I think this is known as "gender fluid", which is what I feel. Sometimes I feel strongly male, other times I feel female.

Yeah I forgot that term for it. Which I actually like better.

From hence forth Osiris is gender fluid.

well i identify as a FTM, androgyne, and queer.  i dont think im so much fluid as i am a feminine masculine person.

the point is, you dont have to be either a FTM or an androgyne.  you can be both or neither.

I used to switch genders a lot but now I identify as FtM androgyne

Just go for what makes you feel best. If things change then try it out

What Josh said. When I first came out to myself as ftm, I was leery of types who called themselves 'ftm' but not 'man'. But now I realize you can be on the transmasculine spectrum without identifying as a man.

I would say anyone who has surgery or HRT is pretty much ftm for all intents and purposes, but their identity can still be androgyne.
In short, yes it's possible to be both.

I feel pretty similar to you, never really being able to work out what my gender is, sometimes feeling male, other times female, other times neither or both.


It's good fun, isn't it?

I don't know much about F2M if you sometime feel man and sometime feel woman but never both or neither then bigender might fit if you slide between a few places then fluid might fit better male female, both, neither.
if you dont feel your man enough to go all the way (FtM) then welome to the middle

I think when friends 'pick up female vibes, sometimes male vibes from me', it's more accurate to say they pick up masculine or feminine vibes.  Beyond the stereotypical associations between male and masculine or with female and feminine, how can another person know what gender you identify as or what body you would feel comfortable in unless you tell them (or reveal it by slipping with your own pronouns or something like that)?

I had similar issues before medical transition, separating presentation from subconscious sex.  It's difficult when your desire to pass as a given sex (or neither) conflicts with other aspects of how you wish to present.  Remember that a given set of clothing will feel very different if before and after medical transition.  Rather than concentrating on labelling your gender identity I think the first step should be to separate as best you can your 'subconscious sex' (or desire to transition physically) from your desired presentation.  The labels should become more self evident once you've done that.  I know an FTM who intends to wear skirts after he has been on T for long enough to pass as male in them 

Rambly reply aside... Like others have said, you can easily be both FTM and androgyne, there are definitions of the two terms that don't conflict.  Medical transition doesn't have to be a binary either, if you decide to go down that path.

I agree with everyone else.  You can be both or neither or it can change.  My only advice is that you shouldn't try to force yourself into a label.  Just go with the flow.  It's also good to think about all the options and consequences of certain actions (like full transition or not transitioning, presenting, living full time with or without SRS, etc) and how you feel about them. For example, if you think about a full transition, will that make you happy?  Breaking it all down is a good method for self discovery.

I agree with everyone too.  Jaimey has a good point that you have plenty of time to experiment with presentation before going with any permanent changes.

When you feel wicked male, you can express it and when you are not feeling male (or masculine) you can express that too.  If you are meant to make any decisions concerning permanent changes, you will know it with certainty.

Nero has been expressing those feelings for a long time. I like the word "transmasculine" a lot.

I know it may not make sense but I envy you guys.  Not only do you have a much greater palette to work with than I do, but you all have an inner strength that I can only dream of.

Bastards!

Yeah. Probably androgyne FTM. I still feel male, and yes I probably am paying too much attention to what others say. I need to work on that.


-Merrick

Quote from: Micah (Merrick) on January 11, 2009, 05:54:37 PM
Yeah. Probably androgyne FTM. I still feel male, and yes I probably am paying too much attention to what others say. I need to work on that.


-Merrick

I'd call that 'normal'.   

Regardless of what you decide you will still be lovely Merrick.

How do you 'feel' male? How do you 'feel' female?

EDIT: and not as in I feel male b/c i want to crush beer cans.  What does feeling male feel like? etc.

Feeling male is something very hard to describe for me. I probably wont be able to explain everything, and not very well.

A lot of the feelings I have relate to the physical. I wish I had a penis, have wanted one as long as I can remember. Sometimes I'll be in the shower, and look down and actually expect to see one there. I would see guys peeing and really wish I could pee that way too.

Sexual contact for me is more "male" too. I don't want to be the one "receiving", I want to "give" if that makes any sense, and you know what I'm referring to. I actually don't feel comfortable without being on top.

I've always wanted to wear male clothing. When I was little, my mother dressed me up frequently and the dresses never felt right. I'd go into the store, and want boy's clothes. My mother would have to steer me away.

I don't understand the female brain very well. Never liked the make-up stuff, never liked "dressing up" and being "girly". Felt wrong. When I dressed like a guy, it felt right. Plus, when I hung out with girls, it didn't feel right as well. I liked them, they were kinder to me, but didn't feel like I "fit". I felt so much more at home (and still do) with guys.

Most of my friends are male, and often I will space out and forget that I'm female. I've even caught myself referring to myself in the masculine, for example saying "The other boys and I" when talking about a time when I was 12.

When I learned about those who have undecended testes in sex-ed, I would get very upset that I didn't have that. At first I thought maybe I wanted this because I wanted to be androgynous, but later realized that they were male, just without the right hormones. Still wanted to be one of them. I figured it must be the male aspect.

There are probably more things I'll think of, but yeah, I also feel more "me" when I am "male".



-Merrick

Most of those examples are social.

Whatever...I can't explain.

I don't really know how anyone feels their gender. It is just something inexplicable. How do you feel 'Male' Mister? Weird question, what was the point?

I think what Merrick described are just things that make sense to them, where they feel comfortable, where they feel most like themselves, a sense of belonging in those places i.e. they feel most comfortable in male spaces. Reading behind it you can see the dysporia. I can relate to those feelings.