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What was the real Fruit of the tree Of the Knowledge Of Good & Evil

Started by Vicky, January 02, 2009, 10:26:50 PM

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Vicky

This is something I have been thinking about for many years, and its great when I am driving long distances with nothing else to do.

What did Adam and Eve really get from the fruit of the Tree Of The Knowledge of Good And Evil??  I can't help but think I see a bad, and very old pun in the story that I have never heard adequately explained.  I suspect though that a lot of people don't get the joke!!

Did they get a knowledge of what their diety considered to be Good behavior and Evil behavior??  If they did, it didn't do them much good or else they would not have acted like two kids with their hands in a cooking jar.

I suspect that they really got a headfull of the knowlegdge of "GoodAndEvil" which I translate out as Judgementalism!  "I'm good cuz I didn't pick the fruit salad, youre evil cuz you got me caught!!!

My problem is that they decided they had to get dressed, and one of them picked a fig leaf and the other a grape leaf, and now I can't wear the leaves I want to because Eve picked them first!!!   
I refuse to have a war of wits with a half armed opponent!!

Wiser now about Post Op reality!!
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tekla

FIGHT APATHY!, or don't...
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Sephirah

Since both are subjective... I would say that, assuming for the moment that such an event actually took place, what was gained from that supposed knowledge tree/fruit... was sentience.
Natura nihil frustra facit.

"You yourself, as much as anybody in the entire universe, deserve your love and affection." ~ Buddha.

If you're dealing with self esteem issues, maybe click here. There may be something you find useful. :)
Above all... remember: you are beautiful, you are valuable, and you have a shining spark of magnificence within you. Don't let anyone take that from you. Embrace who you are. <3
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VeryGnawty

I don't think the story is meant to be taken literally.  I don't think there was a tree, or a fruit.  I haven't entirely decided if there were even and Adam and Eve.

As far as the knowledge of good and evil, it is merely judgment.  It is just the ability to say that one thing is better than another.  Apparently, before this event, humans were too stupid to know the difference, and everything was equally blissfull.

Certainly judgment has use, when it is correct.  The problem is that people today are just as ignrorant as people back then, and they are prone to judging many things they know not of.

It seems that the tree of knowledge didn't really contain very much knowledge.
"The cake is a lie."
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Nero

Nero was the Forum Admin here at Susan's Place for several years up to the time of his death.
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mina.magpie

I think the story in Genesis is an allegory for when humankind became self-aware. That same self-awareness lead to knowledge of our own mortality beyond our immediate survival instinct. That is where the eating of the tree also made it so that we "would surely die". Before that point, while perhaps intelligent, we were true innocents, animals who simply acted on sophisticated instinct or to external stimuli. Eating of the tree was in effect the very first choice humankind ever made, their first action against instinct, which led to them becoming aware of themselves and their bodies, and feeling shame over them. Incidentally, my personal belief is that it is the fear of death that drives us to commit most evils. We fear death and will do whatever we can to put it off by making ourselves as secure as possible, which of course leads to greed, war, all the rest of it.

Incidentally, in many other cultures and traditions serpents are revered as bringers of wisdom and knowledge, the being who taught mankind of civilization, of mathematics and astronomy and technology and the like. The feathered serpent Quetzalcoatl in Mayan mythology, for example, or the Caduceus (intertwined snakes) the god Hermes carried, and which today is a symbol for medicine and healing. Even Christianity has such a tradition, albeit split across two different storylines. The one half is the serpent in the garden, the other half is Enoch, the father of Noah. The Books of Enoch were never included in the Bible, though they form part of the Ethiopian Canon, but Enoch is represented as the father of civilization, being taught the arts of smithing and mathematics and many other sciences by God. Interestingly, Enoch is usually equated with Hermes, who was the god of invention for the Greeks, and Thoth, the Egyptian god of wisdom. In alchemical and occult circles they are syncretised as Hermes Trismegistus, Hermes the Thrice Great, who brought Wisdom, in either of the three guises, to all three the original cultures of the ancient world.

Mina.

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Nicky

You are a true knower of stuff mina. :)

You must like fruit a lot.
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VeryGnawty

Quote from: mina.m->-bleeped-<-ie link=topic=52881.msg327555#msg327555 date=1231071499
I think the story in Genesis is an allegory for when humankind became self-aware. That same self-awareness lead to knowledge of our own mortality beyond our immediate survival instinct. That is where the eating of the tree also made it so that we "would surely die". Before that point, while perhaps intelligent, we were true innocents, animals who simply acted on sophisticated instinct or to external stimuli. Eating of the tree was in effect the very first choice humankind ever made, their first action against instinct, which led to them becoming aware of themselves and their bodies

I do believe this is the best interpretation of the Garden of Eden I have ever read.

I must meditate on this new knowledge.
"The cake is a lie."
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mina.magpie

Quote from: Nicky on January 04, 2009, 05:24:59 PMYou are a true knower of stuff mina. :)

Quote from: VeryGnawty on January 06, 2009, 12:11:54 PMI do believe this is the best interpretation of the Garden of Eden I have ever read.

Aw shucks.  :icon_redface:

Mina.
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Ephilei

Quote from: mina.m->-bleeped-<-ie link=topic=52881.msg327555#msg327555 date=1231071499

Incidentally, in many other cultures and traditions serpents are revered as bringers of wisdom and knowledge, the being who taught mankind of civilization, of mathematics and astronomy and technology and the like. The feathered serpent Quetzalcoatl in Mayan mythology, for example, or the Caduceus (intertwined snakes) the god Hermes carried, and which today is a symbol for medicine and healing. Even Christianity has such a tradition, albeit split across two different storylines. The one half is the serpent in the garden, the other half is Enoch, the father of Noah. The Books of Enoch were never included in the Bible, though they form part of the Ethiopian Canon, but Enoch is represented as the father of civilization, being taught the arts of smithing and mathematics and many other sciences by God. Interestingly, Enoch is usually equated with Hermes, who was the god of invention for the Greeks, and Thoth, the Egyptian god of wisdom. In alchemical and occult circles they are syncretised as Hermes Trismegistus, Hermes the Thrice Great, who brought Wisdom, in either of the three guises, to all three the original cultures of the ancient world.

Mina.

Don't forget the metal serpent God had Moses raise to heal the Hebrews! The book of Hebrews identifies this snake as a preemptive symbol for Jesus, who is also raised to heal all people. Although Revelation identifies the Eden serpent as Satan, the previous Jews did not. They saw him as just another character.

I would not go so far as to say eating the fruit was good, but it was a mixed bag. Adam and Eve were not perfect, contrary to what most Christians think, but neither was their sin without a few advantages. Most sin is like that.
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Hazumu

Quote from: mina.m->-bleeped-<-ie link=topic=52881.msg327555#msg327555 date=1231071499
I think the story in Genesis is an allegory for when humankind became self-aware. <snip>

Wow...

wow...

I'd never thought of that.  I can imagine the shock of realizing You. Will. Die.  That would indeed be a 'bitter fruit'.

Karen
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tekla

It's going to be a real bummer the day the animals discover death, for sure on that.  Though I've always been fond of the notion that humans go into shock to prevent them from knowing they were being eaten alive. 
FIGHT APATHY!, or don't...
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Ephilei

Quote from: mina.m->-bleeped-<-ie link=topic=52881.msg327555#msg327555 date=1231071499
I think the story in Genesis is an allegory for when humankind became self-aware. That same self-awareness lead to knowledge of our own mortality beyond our immediate survival instinct. That is where the eating of the tree also made it so that we "would surely die". Before that point, while perhaps intelligent, we were true innocents, animals who simply acted on sophisticated instinct or to external stimuli. Eating of the tree was in effect the very first choice humankind ever made, their first action against instinct, which led to them becoming aware of themselves and their bodies, and feeling shame over them. Incidentally, my personal belief is that it is the fear of death that drives us to commit most evils. We fear death and will do whatever we can to put it off by making ourselves as secure as possible, which of course leads to greed, war, all the rest of it.

I mostly agree, but can I expand some? Strictly speaking, an allegory is a story where each thing represents another. I think the story is a myth instead, a story using symbolism to tap into the deepest reaches of ourselves. One difference being is that in a myth, one object can symbolize many things in the actual world. JRR Tolkien makes this point about his Lord of the Rings when people tried to read it as an allegory, saying it is a myth. The Ring, like the Fruit, can refer to many, many things without being wrong. So I think the fruit symbolizes many ideas


  • Realization of death
  • Trying to be God
  • Losing innocence and growing up
  • Sexuality
  • Knowledge in general
  • Much more

The beauty of a myth is that it's open ended and be applied in multiple ways. Myths are as much about the reader as they are the writer. More like a poem than a formula. What do you think?
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