I made a statement that women do not possess the strength and indeed savagery (maybe aggression is a nicer word here   )to play team sports effectively, unless against other women. So that sport has to be gender based

Reflecting on this I am wondering now if that is truely the case.  There is no way that women can compete with men on a strength basis - thanks to the miracle of testosterone men have an inate advantage.  Yet, strength is not enough determination and skill count - sadly savagery does also.

Still I wonder - would skill confidence and sheer ability be enough to allow women to compete against men?   I cannot think of any examples

Manon Rheaume did very well playing goal on a professional men's hockey team. And certain sports don't just require strength. Curling, for one.

Yes, I think in some sports, in certain positions, woman can compete against men. But there is the brute strength factor that plays into a lot of professional sports, hence men taking steroids.

Dennis

I think in many cases women can actually be more savage than men.  If you don't believe me, go on google video and look at women fighting each other versus men fighting each other.  The women are scary.  I think men tend to just allow their savagery to flow into everyday life, but women are able to hold it back.

Melissa

Yeah, Melissa, I agree. Women can be pretty damn tough... I think the only thing that would hold them back from competing with men would be the strength thing, as Dennis noted. Women just don't naturally have as much muscle strength as do men. However, one thing that might give some hope is the fact that when a woman trains with weights, if she does the same routine as does a man, she will gain muscle strength three times as quickly as a man. So women can build plenty of strength, they just might not be as strong in the end as men. For us FtMs, though, it's a plus that we can bulk up quickly if need be.

Of course, there are many games in which strategy is more important than strength... basketball, hockey, etc... you just have to keep away from the massive defensemen.

Rafe

It's true that most women will never have as much strength as men, but this is due to hormonal differences and that's just the way it is. I can run pretty darn fast for a woman, but I think it's due to having a male pelvis, which is designed for running.

Melissa

Melissa,

    You will have to show me on that one with the male pelvis thing. I am a very fast runner as well. Back in the day, when I was 12, lets see, 1976, you know the presidential physical fitness awards thing  they are still doing, I got the certificate signed by Jimmy Carter then wow I am old, and the patch. Anyway, I rember my time for the 50 yard dash was 6.7 seconds. Not too bad. It helped alot for base running all those years of softball. I'm just saying I think there are just as many fast girls as there are boys.

                                              Marco

Well, I don't remember where I read that, but the essence of it was that women's pelvises are designed for childbirth and men's are designed for running (probably to help with hunting).  Try googling it.  I think you girls and boys have similar pelvises and it isn't until puberty that they change.  That may have been why you were a faster runner "back in the day".

Melissa

Melissa and Marco,

    There is a very good article in the latest edition (I believe) of National Geographic, July 2006. The article is entitled "The Downside of Upright". It's amazing the bits of trivia that can clutter the brain.

    "Because of the breadth of our pelvis, our thighbone is angled inward toward the knee, rather than straight up and down, as it is in the chimp and other apes. This carrying angle ensures that the knee is brought well under the body to make us more stable.
     "This particular angle means that there are forces on the knee threatening to destabilize it. In women, the angle is greater because of their wider pelvis, which explains why they are slower runners- the increased angle means that they're wasting maybe ten percent of their energy- and also why they tend to suffer more knee injuries."

     To answer the original question, until I reached my mid twenties I could compete with males on an equal level as far as skill and aggression.
I played a wide variety of sports including soccer, karate, swimming and full contact kick boxing. In my mid thirties I still rival or surpass many males my age in strength. 

Alright all you athletes,

Quote from: Melissa on July 12, 2006, 10:47:27 AM
I think in many cases women can actually be more savage than men.  If you don't believe me, go on google video and look at women fighting each other versus men fighting each other.  The women are scary.  I think men tend to just allow their savagery to flow into everyday life, but women are able to hold it back.

Melissa

Very true. Women can be positively vicious.

Quote from: Melissa on July 12, 2006, 10:55:56 AM
It's true that most women will never have as much strength as men, but this is due to hormonal differences and that's just the way it is. I can run pretty darn fast for a woman, but I think it's due to having a male pelvis, which is designed for running.

Melissa

Generally men are stronger and do run faster than women. Yes, men run faster because of the male pelvis.
But women have some advantages too. Women have a greater sense of balance than men. This is not due to the pelvis however, but the fact that women carry most of their weight in their lower bodies (hips, thighs, bottom).

As for me, I never run, unless it's warranted (running from five-oh).

Nero

I used to be in track in highschool.  That would be a hoot to do it again as a woman with a male pelvis.

Melissa

Quote from: Fayde on July 12, 2006, 11:12:03 PM

     "This particular angle means that there are forces on the knee threatening to destabilize it. In women, the angle is greater because of their wider pelvis, which explains why they are slower runners- the increased angle means that they're wasting maybe ten percent of their energy- and also why they tend to suffer more knee injuries."

...My knees are the weak link in my running.  I've always had to take that into consideration when preparing for or performing in the Physical Readiness Test.  Where can I get my knee angle measured and compared to male and female norms?

Karen

When I was in elementary school, my parents were told that I would never be good at physical activities because of problems with my motor skills.  I now know that this was due to having the wrong body, but I learned to adapt and improved my motor skills so that I could outperform others.  We had a race at the end of each year in elementary school and I never did well, but in sixth grade I really tried and ended up getting second place.  I was so proud, because I had been told I could never do stuff like that.  I've also improved my reflexes and muscle speed and can move much faster than the average person.

Melissa

An interesting thread.......

I achieved a fair amount of succes of a sporting nature as a guy, even representing my country at track and field when 18 and played tennis at Wimbledon.

As a woman, I now play competitive woman's sport, having taken up softball in my early 40's. Having been on hormones and now 4 years post Op, the biggest difference is strength and physical ability and stamina. Just as competetive, but without the level of aggression and at times "nastiness" that creeps into guys sport.

I also play Co-ed softball with the guys and they frighten me to death, when they hit the ball, women don,t pitch in the co-ed league. I play 1st base and had two fingers broken by a guy, playing short stop... who simply threw the ball to me, it nearly took my glove off.

As for team sports, I am one of 10 on the softball field, there are girls in my team who can hit the ball further, throw better than me and run faster. Although I bat clean up, this is due to my ability to place the ball, rather than hit further......as an Individual my only advantage being TS is my height, 5ft 10 is not bad for 1st base.

Becky

Watching an U-12 girls soccer team a long time ago I learned that what girls lacked in strength, they made up by being downright devious.

Someone I knew went into the Air Force.  His workout partner ended up being this woman who was really into bodybuilding.  She would run him into the ground in the gym and then go out and run laps while he was still laying on the floor trying to recover.