Quote from: Starbuck on January 19, 2009, 07:18:36 AM
Um, witches have what to do with transgender?

The Wiccan Mysteries of Gender

QuoteI had traveled far enough on my path to find myself thinking about a rite of passage. In Wiccan traditions, and many other religious paths for that matter, rites of passage are typically performed for all major life events -- birth, puberty, marriage, and death, among others. In my life, gender transition is much like both birth and death -- or death and rebirth, as the case may be. So I began searching for any existing rituals on the internet, in books, and in other covens. There was nothing to be found; no rituals even close to commemorate as major a change as gender transition. The closest I found was the puberty rite for girls. But these spoke of the women's mysteries for the most part, and as I mentioned, those really don't apply to me.

I spoke to my High Priestess, and expressed my interest in performing such a ritual. Originally, I had been undecided in whether I wanted to perform this as a solitary ritual, or with the coven. Since we both pretty much saw this as an entrance into the community of women, we decided it should be a 'community' event -- so the coven would be involved.
...
In any event, the ritual was created, by the High Priestess, the other women who joined in the ritual, and myself, each contributing a part to make a functional whole. Perhaps there was my definition -- each gender is made of many parts, each part contributing to the whole. The parts may overlap between genders, suggesting a gender continuum as opposed to a polarity, but combined with the individual's internal sense of who they are, makes up what we are in respect to gender. Another mystery revealed...

My Journey from a Catholic to a Wiccan

QuoteThrough Wicca I have finally been able to begin the process of healing myself. Thirteen years spent hating GLTB people can't be rectified easily, I suppose. But I'm getting there. Each day I feel better about myself. Each day it's easier and easier for me to fully believe that the God and Goddess love me. Each day a little bit of that self-hatred melts away. And as for being transgender, becoming Wicca saved me from going through the painful times I went through when I realized I was bisexual. Through Wicca I have come to see my transsexuality as a gift from the God and Goddess. Before, I saw it as a freakish mistake and curse. Wicca has turned my life around. It gave me hope for the future and a way to live in the present.

Gender and sexuality in Heathenry

QuoteIt includes a form of magic known as seiðr, which was originally largely practised by women, though also by ergi men. Men regarded it as "women's magic" - cunning and underhand. This was the Norse term for a passive partner in homosexual sex. Seiðr has been enthusiastically researched and revived by Heathen women, and by some gay men. Heterosexual heathen men are starting to become interested in becoming seiðr-workers (Blain, 2001). There is also a certain amount of gender-bending in Norse myth. When Oðinn was initiated by the goddess Freyja into Seiðr, he became more transgendered. Loki transformed himself into a mare, and Thor disguised himself as a giantess.

Conclusion

In general, Pagans are very accepting of variation in gender and sexuality, and are very willing to challenge received societal norms on this and many other issues. There is also strong evidence that ancient paganisms tolerated a variety of gender and sexual roles, and a lot of Pagan mythology reflects this. Although there has been some difficulty in Wicca with adapting the rituals to be more inclusive, this has by and large been achieved, with new versions of traditional forms of words being introduced.

I myself wrote an essay titled "Trans Witch" about the interrelationship of transsexualism and Witchcraft, for publication in an anthology my friend is editing about transgender in Paganism. It hasn't been published yet, though I can quote from what I wrote, if you like.

QuoteTranssexualism and Witchcraft came together as such closely related developments in my life, they form two aspects of a single transformation. Each is an elaboration of the other. Discovering myself to be transsexual, I began cross-gender expression that sometimes became difficult, even caused me stress and grief in relation to the world. At the same time, I chose Witchcraft as a connection to the Goddess and as a means to empower my own energy, strengthen me, and provide means allowing me to function as trans in the world. ... I needed Witchcraft in order for me to take charge of my life with conscious intent. At the same time, in mutual synergy, the shifts in consciousness produced by transsexual experience provided a remarkable source of power for my Craft.

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Post Merge: January 19, 2009, 04:09:41 PM

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Quote from: Leiandra on January 19, 2009, 07:37:22 AM
I rather think I was mentally ill before coming to terms with being female trapped in the wrong body. At least in terms of symptoms. The acceptance and realisation of who I am was the cure for that particular ailment.

Now my mental state has never been better, and the focus has shifted to a physical condition, one which I already know how to resolve.

This states it perfectly! Great post!

I disagree Hypatia... wican is all well and good... but i think theres a point where 'trans people talking about being trans and wican' doesnt mean 'wican AND trans are related' as the original post on this subject suggested...

the first quote summed it up....

apart from a puberty right for girls, theres no wican relation to gender transition...

Nichole -- okay, I'm scratching my head trying to see the relevance of the distinction between the APA and the other APA.

Starbuck -- you seemed to say T.S. isn't rare enough to be a "mental illness" -- but what about depression?

But the point is, who cares? As Tekla suggested, "mental illness" is just a label. It doesn't say anything about what you should do about it.

~Alyssa

not rare, but the symptoms of GID are all too similar... consistant, and the cure is the same for it nomatter what... being yourself. Depression has many causes, cures, and varying sypmtoms...
Its treatable with surgery, and medication. all these things lean it much more towards a medical condition than a mental one... mental conditions can be cured, and the paitent may go along with their life as it was... how many trans people get it 'cured' and carry on as before?

Quote from: Starbuck on January 19, 2009, 06:45:39 PMtheres no wican relation to gender transition...

There isn't for you... but there is for me. I found self-transformation to be powerful magick.

ah yes. the relief that some get from HRT and going full time is much more powerful for some than others.

Quote from: SomeMTF on January 19, 2009, 06:41:38 AM
Would it be better if ''we'' were only sinners for example?

No. Ill people are cured. Simmers are damned. I don't see that as better.

The difference, Alyssa, is that they are two separate and distinct organizations with different goals although with an overlapping, to some degree, membership.

DSMs are the world of the psychiatric association and something you and everyone else should be aware of is that psychiatrists and Clinical Psychologists can legally write prescriptions, along with APNs. Why does that matter, say thee? Because the incestuous relationship between diagnosis and it's definitions as placed into DSM, decisions about what stays in, is added or goes and how treatment is viewed is very often quite intimately involved with making a new diagnosis that (here's the real surprise) that just happens to dovetail with the approval of a new drug one of the effects of which is to treat exactly the symptoms of the new disorder!!

Those who prescribe get preferential treament from pharmaceutical companies. As do those who make the 'bible" of the trade that uses the meds produced by said firms.

The other APA doesn't get those perks. I suspect that's one of the reasons you saw the call by the Psychological APA this past summer to change the way transfolk were dealt with. While there's some whispers right now that the Shrink-wrap APA may attempt to further pathologize us all by formalizing the Blanchard dichotomy. That would be the Blanchard who's on the committee that will be handling sexual disorders.

Nichole

Thanks for clarifying, Starbuck and Nichole.



~Alyssa

Quote from: Lisbeth on January 19, 2009, 07:24:39 PM

Quote from: SomeMTF on January 19, 2009, 06:41:38 AM
Would it be better if ''we'' were only sinners for example?

No. Ill people are cured. Simmers are damned. I don't see that as better.

I do feel a bit evil when I turn the stove to the simmer setting 

Quote from: Virginia Marie on January 19, 2009, 11:44:19 PM

Quote from: Lisbeth on January 19, 2009, 07:24:39 PM

Quote from: SomeMTF on January 19, 2009, 06:41:38 AM
Would it be better if ''we'' were only sinners for example?

No. Ill people are cured. Simmers are damned. I don't see that as better.

I do feel a bit evil when I turn the stove to the simmer setting 

O, I thought she was talking about damning shoes and just omitted the "k" -- ya know skimmers!! 

Quote from: Nichole on January 19, 2009, 11:53:04 PM

Quote from: Virginia Marie on January 19, 2009, 11:44:19 PM

Quote from: Lisbeth on January 19, 2009, 07:24:39 PM

Quote from: SomeMTF on January 19, 2009, 06:41:38 AM
Would it be better if ''we'' were only sinners for example?

No. Ill people are cured. Simmers are damned. I don't see that as better.

I do feel a bit evil when I turn the stove to the simmer setting 

O, I thought she was talking about damning shoes and just omitted the "k" -- ya know skimmers!! 

Hmmmm, maybe they didn't have her size in stock 

In the U.K psychiatrists play heavy on the mentally ill tag. Far more than in the U.S or our European counterparts. It puts up a lot of barriers especially within the U.K NHS where people are sent to a Mental Health Clinic like 'West London Mental Health' and tarnished with that mental health analogy. It's wrong and it sucks.

Quote from: Nichole on January 19, 2009, 11:53:04 PM

Quote from: Virginia Marie on January 19, 2009, 11:44:19 PM

Quote from: Lisbeth on January 19, 2009, 07:24:39 PM

Quote from: SomeMTF on January 19, 2009, 06:41:38 AM
Would it be better if ''we'' were only sinners for example?

No. Ill people are cured. Simmers are damned. I don't see that as better.

I do feel a bit evil when I turn the stove to the simmer setting 

O, I thought she was talking about damning shoes and just omitted the "k" -- ya know skimmers!! 

Nah... I was referring to me being a hottie.

Just  to be pedantic, you might equally say sinners are forgiven; ill people die a horrid painful death....

But sinners have to suffer the bitching of christian rright wingers for thier life....



i do find it funny how they claim to be so... right.... yet refuse to read from thier updated edition and choose to use a copy that we jews modified and moved on from....

Admitedly, a little fire and brimstone is fun to keep the masses in order, but ive never come accross an interpretation in the bible of transsexualism or homosexualism that was not for the same reason for kosher....

at the time, the jewish population was small, so reproduction was a MASSIVE priority....men lying with men = no baby making... and trans... potentially a similar reason IF it was not the widely accepted fact that the pasage refers to ceremonial dress... atleast in our version...
Religion is politics.... Its a vessel for authenticating biggotry...

We all experience life in a different way. We have a range of thoughts that stretch from abnormal to ?. Possibly Lunae can state the clinical definition of mental illness.
I'm pretty sure I'm not mentally ill, or maybe I am. I have depression but have sought medical help and feel great. I have a patient  ( a number in fact) who have CLL (a type of leukaemia) they feel fine and will probably not need treatment, the "illness" was picked up on routine screens. Yes they are "ill" but do not need treatment. Are they normal? Ill but don't require treatment?

Define illness!
Different to the normal physiological state.

Define normal. The majority. In Nazi Germany were the majority normal? In Pol Phots regime were the leaders and party normal? They had control.

If we state thet the majority of men beat their wives, girlfriends ( please I'm only using an example) this would be considered normal. But it's not.

Maybe we have definitions of normality too tightly defined. society deliberatly leaves out the extremes. Do any of us truely believe that a Down's syndrome person is normal? No. But would anyone say they should not be a normal member of society! Albiet needing support and help - and respect.

I don't know if this has contributed or I'm running in circles

LoL
Cindy James

Quote from: Leiandra on January 19, 2009, 07:37:22 AM
I rather think I was mentally ill before coming to terms with being female trapped in the wrong body. At least in terms of symptoms. The acceptance and realisation of who I am was the cure for that particular ailment.

Now my mental state has never been better, and the focus has shifted to a physical condition, one which I already know how to resolve.

I have autism and when I first began my transition, I remember somebody told me that I would never transition. I looked at the Standards of Care, and boy that person ever wrong.

After a few years during my transition, I realized that my mental state has been better.

Had I not transitioned--I would have committed suicide and would not be on this forum.

Hmm...

We know that there is most likely an area of the brain responsible for the sensation (perception) of gender identity.  However we haven't figured out yet where it is located or how it is encoded (or even more specifically, where we can poke at it in a monkey and generalize it to we humans).

But because I DO believe it is there, I think that our GID is much more likely the result of a malfunctioning "gender identity brain center" than a malformed body.  This would make it a mental birth defect - same as schizophrenia or countless others.  Of course, just because it exists biologically doesn't mean that is how it is triggered.  If it had a biological base and an environmental trigger (again like schizophrenia) that could explain the "late-comers" you might say.

Regardless if it is a problem in the mind or a problem in the body right now there isn't a whole heck of a lot you can do about it.  Learn to live with the discomfort or transition (or something in between).  If I am correct, perhaps once we have traumatized enough chimps and rhesus monkeys we will discover where we gain our concept of gender identity and will be able to have it modified.

The next question is though, who would want that modification?  I think for some being "transgendered" has become so central to their identity (what with all the time being so focused on it) that it might be hard to let go - like they had all that pain for nothing.  Bah, this is a discussion for another topic.