I hate to admit it, but I fit a lot of the female stereotypes about poor driving ability, map reading, etc. I can't catch a ball to save my life. I don't have a 'mind's eye'. I have no coordination whatsoever, I flunked gym every year, can't do anything that requires spatial ability, etc...

Is this due to T deficiency? Will these things get better on T?
I know it's a long shot but it would be really nice. 

I know there are women who are good at all these things without T but I figure the stereotypes exist for a reason, right?   

I don't know about testosterone, but you could always try videogames...

http://archive.seacoastonline.com/news/03222007/health-f-m22-videogames.html

Gee, I hope not.

I like reading maps. D:

If you spent some time with me here on the farm in central pa  i would build your muscles and give you an insight into the world that would give you the ability to build buildings without blueprints

BOOTCAMP BEGINS AT 4AM 

haha I'm the same, can't read maps to save my life. I have GPS on my phone and I still get lost in new places. No hand eye coordination whatsoever

and I'm an avid gamer =P

Well, I can't say that the increase of testosterone will make any improvement but, I've noticed that now that my testosterone is blocked, my coordination and spatial abilities have decreased.

I am not as attentive when I drive and I don't react as fast. Now I drive slower and more defensively.

I still enjoy math and have always had a strong sense of direction and spatial awareness but, now I have to really stay focused and sometimes repeat things.

I used to be better coordinated but now I am somewhat slower and clumsy.

My old abilities aren't all gone but they are different.

Still, I can't say that this is all without a doubt the product of hrt. Maybe this is just part of the aging process or maybe I'm a dunce.

Oh lord I fail at directions. Can't remember street names for the life of me. God help me whenever I get around to learning to drive.

Quote from: freespeechz on January 30, 2009, 07:07:45 PM
Oh lord I fail at directions. Can't remember street names for the life of me. God help me whenever I get around to learning to drive.

I've been putting off learning to drive for the past 3 years because I just don't think I'll be able to do it. I walk in to things all the time and never have a clue where I'm going so I dread to think what would happen in a car o_o

I've read the psych studies and whatnot, and no, testosterone and estrogen have nothing to do with learning differences in males and females. Those are strictly due to culture and upbringing. Girls who grew up playing video games tend to have the same spacial abilities as guy who did the same. Sorry if that's not what you wanted to hear, but maybe Leiandra's got the right idea... get good at the old XBox or what have you.

SD

Quote from: Sebastien on January 30, 2009, 11:31:11 PM
Girls who grew up playing video games tend to have the same spacial abilities as guy who did the same.

Lol, that is kinda funny/interesting.  I guess I should be thanking my dad for giving me his old Atari 2600 when I was 4 and then buying me a Super Nintendo the first Christmas it was released in the US (I think he wanted one, though... and passing it off as a gift to me was the only way he was getting one without my mom laughing at him ).  I don't really understand how those 2D games would really enhance spatial abilities though... at least not the 2D side-scrolling platformers and fighting games I played.  Maybe something 3D, like a flight simulator...

I just looked up a study entitled "Playing an Action Video Game Reduces Gender Differences in Spatial Cognition" by Jing Feng, Ian Spence, and Jay Pratt in Psychological Science--found it on Google, I can PM the link if anyone's interested.  The study concluded that first person shooters (they used Medal of Honor: Pacific Rift) seem to be the best at enhancing spatial cognition, with female non-gamers reaping the most benefit. 

However, I'm inclined to believe that even though video game 'training' may improve spatial abilities, there must be something else that influences whether a person has good spatial cognition or not.  I'm sure there were people who were good at spatial cognition before video games became commonplace.  Despite not playing first-person shooters until very recently (this Christmas--got a PS3), I have very good spatial abilities.  I'm one of those people who has a very keen minds' eye and will draw floor plans/make a 3D model in my head of whatever building I am in.  I will mentally draw plans of whatever city I am in.  I was good at mental rotation when I was first introduced to it (all freshmen engineers at my college had to take the "spatial visualization test" and pass before they were allowed into their first engineering course; I had never done that type of mental rotation before, but passed first try--many people didn't pass, including some guys, and had to take a special course to practice spatial visualization).  The spatial visualization test consisted of mentally rotating drawings of block arrangements and matching them to an equivalent, but differently rotated, block arrangement.  The class I took worked on further honing skills in spatial visualization.

I guess the easiest recommendation if you want to try improving your spatial skills, Nero, would be to pick up a used Xbox or PS2 on the cheap, and then get a few first person shooters.  I would also recommend working with the block arrangements for mental rotation that I just described; I'm sure a Google image search would yield some images that you could work with, although a rigorous class like I took might be most effective.  You said you are taking some online courses--would they have any spatial visualization or introduction to engineering courses that you could take, maybe as an elective?

Nah, if you want to play a first person shooter properly, then you get one for PC.
Or at least, that's my bias, but using a controller might also be good on that front. You could still buy a controller for your PC and then bind everything up to that if you really feel it's necessary, but learning how to aim with a mouse and learning how not to spray your bullets (Spraying = shooting wildly and not aiming.) still takes some co-ordination and time.

If your computer isn't up to date, you could go for the older Quake I-III games or Half-life 2. People still play online and it'd be cheaper than buying a used system and games.

I have to say I agree with Sebastien having known a fair few people of both sexes who were equally apt at skills requiring spatial ability I really don't feel that spatial cognition is dependant on gender.
It makes far more sense that the skills that are most advanced in a person are in fact those that have been developed or dare I say it encouraged to develop, which is why more bio females perhaps may be lacking in this department if indeed it is the case that they are.
They were perhaps not encouraged to play ball, computer games, read maps etc so much as their biomale counterparts when growing up and even now now instead of taking time to develop them instead often actually rely on such stereotypes compounded by society such as "oh women can't read maps" etc...." when of course they can as many have proven.

I definately concur that playing video games may help to develop greater spatial ability though, I played them from a relatively young age and it definately increased my abilities in this department and helped me to think laterally in terms of problem solving etc..

There definitely is a built-in ability for spatial awareness and so on, but I don't think it's gender dependent.  There's even a particular part of the brain that corresponds to how well you can conceptualize large numbers -- the longer the part is the bigger numbers you can conceptualize.  If it gets damaged in an accident or what-have-you, you can't think in as big numbers as you could before.  The brain is a mysterious animal.

Interesting question..
I think most of it has to do with conditioning. Like how most boys are enrolled in sports when they're young, while girls really aren't unless they want to.

As for me I've been playing videogames since age 3 so maybe that explains why I can read a map or have good aim when I play ball sports
In fact I remember owning my dad and brother at basketball and putt putt golf. heehhehe

i dunno nero and hi btwlong time bro!!!all i know is that my sense of direction changed for the worse lol......oh well....
not so jaded

Back in my day we did orange double domes or white lightning or strawberry fields which gave us great spatial visual abilities where we could see many things that weren't there. We could visualize anything we dreamed of

T hasn't improved anything like this for me... but i've always been good with maps/directions etc.

Hey Nero,

Having been born genetic male, I still have the worst sense of direction imaginable. I can be in a place several dozen times and still get confused. I couldn't play stuff like Guitar Hero if my life depended on it . I like first person shooters occasionally, but I get my behind kicked in them .

I think that the stereotype thing there is bullcrap cause I have seen some genetic girls with a sense of direction that is amazing. And there are girls that I've heard of that will whip any guy's behind in games too.

Sorry Nero, you're outta luck.  My suggestion- buy a GPS.

I've actually gotten lost more using my GPS than before I had one, lol. I haven't really noticed any improvement in my spacial  or directional skills, they were pretty good before I started T. If you want to improve your coordination/spacial skills I suggest playing hacky sack...it's better for you than playing video games. As far as directions go...well, just pay attention I guess.