Hopefully this will be pretty much already a given to many, but, in essence just in case here is a thought to consider.

Every once in a while one receives the too easily dreaded pangs of someone perplexed. "You never acted like a girl" (or for the boys out there a boy). Really, all this means is that one is a very good actor and is, perhaps contrary to what we might initially think, not in anyway a reflection of our gender.

Consider this, we start life trying our best to manage. Somethings that apparently were supposed to be obvious.. very much weren't, while some of the impulses that we actually had were very much uncouth. At least, for the gender they thought we were anyway. To be transsexual is to be out of place in our own bodies. In that, we learn to adapt to various degrees factoring in family, society and our own personalties among other things. We, in essence, put on a role, one that will allow us to survive in our predicament. In short, how much we acted like our gender while we were hiding is really of no consequence because we were hiding. Acting out, Playing pretend with the role society demanded of us. Of course we weren't very much like ourselves, we were so oft trying so hard not to be.

There is variance of course, and many details but in general I think our past actions are, at least for some, very much not a measure of whom we really are.

Might you have any thoughts?

Hmmmm ... well, when I was hitting puberty I think my parents were a bit concerned about me having gender confusion. From about the age of 12 all the way to 18 I had long hair and before that I was even 10 I was talking about getting a sex change with my parents.  I don't think my parents are going to be the least bit surprised when they discover many of my most intimate relationships have been with transgendered people.

Point is though I actually like being male and I would only turn female if I was guaranteed to be beautiful, passable, and with the same genitalia just as functional as ever, and I would still be attracted to females. 

The way we act is largely determined socially anyhow be that male or female.  For an individual raised in the tradition of being male, unless they actively reject such social programming or adopt other programming on their own, that individual doesn't have a lot of choice but to act male regardless of internal gender identity.

I agree with what you are saying Kimberley. We dont act out as our own gender as we are
scared of the consiquenses and we try so hard to fit in with normal society. There are plenty
of women who I know who act like males doesn't mean they are going to change, and the
same with males. Up until I was around 11/12 did I first thing I am not going to hide who I
am and let my real personalitly shine through.

I haven't had anyone say you didn't even act like a boy. As most people on a daily basis would
comment on how I should be a man. lol

We are all diffrent and deal with things diffrently.

Quote from: Loving_kindness_4_all on February 03, 2009, 03:38:18 AM
Point is though I actually like being male and I would only turn female if I was guaranteed to be beautiful, passable, and with the same genitalia just as functional as ever, and I would still be attracted to females.

Oh the irony of life is something else. You almost mirror my thoughts grade 6. .. For me it was clone bodies or bust. .. I busted, heh.

Quote
Sugar and spice and everything nice, that's what little transsexual girls are made of.
Bathed in the mud and left out in the cold, that's the lot little transsexual girls get.

You actually think that is the case?

You know, I had a comment like that from someone, and it made me think about this very subject. I think there's a degree of overcompensation, or trying too hard... and in trying to make sure no one knows what we haven't fully come to terms with ourselves, because of how we view our own feelings (quite apart from fitting in with society), it's possible that a person can be overzealous in the role, and appear to be the very essence of masculinity (for women) or femininity (for men), even though that conflicts with who they actually are.

Maybe that springs from "The way I feel isn't normal, there has to be something wrong with me, I'm a freak!" And, because of these feelings of shame, or awkwardness, denial... what have you, an attempt is made to 'rectify' that by adhering vehemently to the steretypes of the physical gender you have to deal with in the hopes that it will somehow shake you out of these feelings and this growing knowledge that you aren't who you appear to be.

Thus, other people see you as 'one of the lads' or 'one of the girls' because that's who you're trying to be, in order to convince yourself that there's nothing wrong.

Maybe for some people, it is a role played to fool society, but for others it's a role played to fool oneself.

Those are my thoughts anyway.

Well...

The thing here is, is that assuming I were born as a girl, I'd still be a freaking weirdo...


Basically yeah. I started ACTING when I became aware of my problem, but there were certainly some male tendencies I still enjoyed (That kind of obnoxiousness I suppose? Is that the right word for it?). I always had that yearning though, and that secret response in my head to what people said that would make everything horrid and ironic.

But when my mom, who is still confused, got on my case so much about, "But you aren't even that feminine. I hate to say it... But-" It almost galvanized what I was already thinking maybe. I remember that the whole reason I did all of this in the first place was the problem I had with my body, and that I only figured out along the way that my social role was also awry.

Its... Complicated. DX

But my mom would cluelessly ask every day, "Are you sure you're not gay?" And I would smack my own head a thousand times cause she went to art school and doesn't know the difference between gender and sexuality. My point to her was that, "Well technically, I AM gay, cause I like girls... Silly mom." But she wouldn't get it, so one day I outright told her that anal was not for me and she stopped. Now she more or less accepts me, but she only does it because she doesn't want to lose me and be alone. She still doesn't REALLY respect it, and I can tell. I don't know... I just get that vibe from her and some other people. Who secretly think I'm just some crazy unstable guy who will never pass and is taking hormones, and is just apeSh@# insane. The comic relief character in the movie of Life, just for them. Douches...

I think it's because there are feminine guys and masquline girls, so it's impossible to "Act like a boy or a girl"

Quote from: Heartwood on February 03, 2009, 06:38:26 AM
I think it's because there are feminine guys and masquline girls, so it's impossible to "Act like a boy or a girl"

That could be another good point there. Assuming I WERE totally a girl... No matter how dudish I dressed I would just come across as cuter to some people... DX

Thats one thing that has always killed me about this. My confidence is lower because of the trans thing. If I were GG I'd probably be ridiculously tomboyish and less socially submissive.

I have no idea...

I think most friends and family say something like this when we come out. My mom did, but now she keeps saying how much I did act like a boy and how she hoped when I was a kid, that the ballet, modeling classes, etc would make me more feminine.  (run -on sentence but oh well)

I always got told I acted and thought like a guy even before I came out 

Quote from: Loving_kindness_4_all on February 03, 2009, 05:42:34 AM
You actually think that is the case?

It has seemed pretty apt to me. Perhaps something of a translation is of value:
"Bathed in the mud" : ugly/misshapen. Such is the hazard of a malformed body. Modern medicine can only do so much after all.
"left out in the cold" : excluded from "normal" activities growing up, etc.

Quote from: Kara-Xen on February 03, 2009, 06:14:31 AM
The thing here is, is that assuming I were born as a girl, I'd still be a freaking weirdo...

Ditto, I am abby-normal and proud of it!

Quote from: Heartwood on February 03, 2009, 06:38:26 AM
I think it's because there are feminine guys and masquline girls, so it's impossible to "Act like a boy or a girl"

I very much agree. But, it does not stop people from presuming.

Quote from: Jeatyn on February 03, 2009, 10:24:57 AM
I always got told I acted and thought like a guy even before I came out 

Some do, and while it's certainly nice to hear for us, it really is no measure. ESPECIALLY no measure for those who hid better, which is my point of this.


Just thoughts...

I believe a male or female gender orientation is largely a brain thing you're born with, where a masculine or feminine expression of personality is largely a learned thing.  All people, trans or not, use a persona to interface with society, and a one's persona is rarely a completely analogous expression of their inner personality.  We adapt our persona to fit the needs of our inner-self the best we know how.

Some of us born with an incorrectly gendered brain/body adapt by conforming to cues from without, so such an FTM, inner-self be damned, would develop a feminine persona which at a glance (normally the extent of effort people use to establish another's gender) seems perfectly normal for a girl.  Other FTMs will conform to cues from within, and society be damned, develop a masculine persona.  There are reasonable explanations as to why a child, often 4 years or younger, opts for either strategy.  Usually, it depends much on their given personality traits: submissive, dominant, etc. and the nature of the community in which they grew up.

So, one thing you could take from my ramblings- the fact an MTF never showed signs of femininity may be due to her innate submissiveness, a trait which has been gendered feminine in most societies, hehe.  Also, you can change your persona b/c it's not hardwired to your brain, but not your identity because it is.

My question will always be "how does a girl (or boy) act?". There is no one right answer to that.

I'm no actor, the way I behaved as a kid was simply because
a- it meant I fitted in
b- it was expected
c- I wanted to
d- or all of the above or some combination of

pretty much just like anyone else.

Quote from: Jen on February 03, 2009, 07:25:24 PMthe fact an MTF never showed signs of femininity may be due to her innate submissiveness, a trait which has been gendered feminine in most societies

That's the same conclusion I came up with. I was not so bold growing up as to think I could defy the powers that be.

QuoteMaybe for some people, it is a role played to fool society, but for others it's a role played to fool oneself.

Well said.

Quote from: Kara-Xen on February 03, 2009, 09:02:44 AM
Assuming I WERE totally a girl... No matter how dudish I dressed I would just come across as cuter to some people... DX

I know that's how I was (am?) perceived...  Apparently there's something about a short female dressed in mens clothing that, to some, is appealing and... cute... -.-

"We are so accustomed to disguise ourselves to others that in the end we become disguised to ourselves."
--La Rochefoucauld

Quote from: Eryk on February 04, 2009, 12:49:42 PM

Quote from: Kara-Xen on February 03, 2009, 09:02:44 AM
Assuming I WERE totally a girl... No matter how dudish I dressed I would just come across as cuter to some people... DX

I know that's how I was (am?) perceived...  Apparently there's something about a short female dressed in mens clothing that, to some, is appealing and... cute... -.-

Uhhh. You KINDA do, but not so much as you think from the picture. You're cute, but less so than the tomboyish dude way... I dk.