I think a lot of people in the world think that Cali is too liberal, NorCal, way too liberal, and SF off the charts.  We like to think of SF as 49 square miles surrounded by reality, and we like it that way.  It's not for everyone.

If you enjoy it, if it relaxes you, or you find something about you that can't be expressed any other way, then its fine.  No one is getting hurt.  Crossdressing is pretty much a victimless crime.

Quote from: tekla on January 07, 2009, 12:47:05 PM
No one is getting hurt.  Crossdressing is pretty much a victimless crime.

I'm not hurting anyone. But I guess I do feel a bit the victim of my own conflicting feelings.

Partly I feel what I do is immoral, yet on the other hand I dont care for the reasons you've listed. I'm not hurting anyone and my actions have not affected anyone else. Then again, I worry mostly about the consequences, about the morality. I blame it partly on growing up in the bible belt and the judgements of it growing up, yet I seem to know better on some level.

I guess what I'm saying is that I dont feel bad about it so much as worried over the consequences of my actions. It's purely a moral dilemma of my own making. I do it, but I blame myself for it and feel bad about it while at the same time it makes me feel good. The visual aspect and the sensory aspect of it is fulfilling, and then the moral concerns kinda kill it. Two worlds and way too complicated for me to reconcile.

No need to continue, im just working things out on paper at this point.

I'm kinda slow, bear of very little brain and all, but exactly how do fashion choices and immorality have anything to do with each other?

Quote from: tekla on January 07, 2009, 01:05:05 PM
I'm kinda slow, bear of very little brain and all, but exactly how do fashion choices and immorality have anything to do with each other?

Your not slow, I think I'm just damaged. I grew up in a realm of morality in the Bible belt and while I've taken some of the message to heart other parts of the message I disagree with but cant reconcile.

Basically, crossdressing is wrong cuz bible school made it so... It's certainly not something that I'd want to see much of in public yet here I am doing it (in private).

I know this all sounds silly, but its really bothering me. I tell my wife what it was like growing up in that sort of environment and she just cant grasp it. I bet she thinks I make it up (like the blue laws where the sabbath was holy and you would go to jail for doing anything the towns preachers said was a sin).

You're welcome Banshee, just browse through the forums I'm sure you'll find just what you need here, we're all pretty supportive.  Except when we're arguing with each other. 

Quote from: fae_reborn on January 07, 2009, 12:09:15 PM
Banshee, try using a trimmer on your legs first to remove all the excess hair, then use a razor with some women's leg shaving cream, something with a moisturizer in it.  That might help.

Wow, I did not know you got womans leg shaving cream. I should try that.

Banshee,

I agree with Fae & Tekla. You're not doing anything wrong or evil or whatever. The only person you might possibly hurt is your wife, and she already knows.

And as Tekla pointed out, you're supporting the economy.

Of course, if your friends/coworkers/customers/whatever found out about your secret self, you might have some problems. But I gather you have enough sense to keep it private. Besides, I suspect you'd be shocked if you discovered what really goes on in some of your friends' and neighbors' bedrooms.

Incidentally, I know what you're talking about with the thrill of shopping. Shopping for guy clothes is just plain boring. Blech! But women's clothes ... now that's exciting! The thrill of the hunt and all that. The challenge of finding something cute ... in my size ... or at least what I guess to be my size. As you've no doubt discovered, dress sizes aren't all that consistent. And fooling the salesgirls into thinking that it's not for me is fun too.

Oh yes, I got the same "crossdressing is evil" messages when I was growing up -- and that was not in the bible belt. I've managed to shed them by now. Although once in a while, when I'm depressed, they do come back and bite me in the ass for a little while.

Quote from: banshee on January 07, 2009, 11:08:33 AM
You know what I feel like? I feel like a conservative lesbian trapped in a mans body. 

This reminds me of an Eddie Izzard stand-up bit where he describes being a ->-bleeped-<- as being male-lesbian.

Go to youtube and check out some Eddie Izzard stand-up, he's hilarious and knows how to rock a good dress.

Quote from: tekla on January 07, 2009, 12:47:05 PM
I think a lot of people in the world think that Cali is too liberal, NorCal, way too liberal, and SF off the charts.  We like to think of SF as 49 square miles surrounded by reality, and we like it that way.  It's not for everyone.

I've always heard it as:
california: LA and SF with kentucky in between
(or somethign similar)

banshee: try exfoliating for those shaving bumps.

Quote from: MarySue on January 07, 2009, 11:31:34 PM
I suspect you'd be shocked if you discovered what really goes on in some of your friends' and neighbors' bedrooms.

Yeah, I'd rather not know what goes on in others bedrooms. The internet gives me plenty enough to shock.


Thanks all for the support. I'm trying to come to grips with it since I've pretty much realized that I'm not going to stop it seems. Also trying to temper it with how much I'd like to do and how much I can do without panicking the wife.

Hi banshee

I gave up on gods and religions when I found out they didn't support people like me. If god made me like I am, then what's the problem. If it didn't make me- there is no problem.

Can I suggest take your time. You are doing nothing wrong. Genetic women dress in male clothing all the time, I haven't heard any bible bashers critizing them. But i'm in Australia.
Accept yourself and talk to your wife and explain your feelings and express your deep love to her. She is worried about losing you.

Tell her the truth, in moderation over time

LoL
Cindy James

Thinking on it has helped, as well as supportive messages.

I've never thought of myself as a monster or anything, just maybe immoral and confused.

As I mentioned before I'm crossdressing on occasion as permits, usually just heels and hose, but most enjoy a full outfit if I can. I also consume porn a fair bit, and dressing up almost always done with sexual intent. But as I resist it and think on it I'm trying to identify just what it is I enjoy about it. Maybe I can filter it down to what I'm really after.

I find that when I'm looking at porn its mostly pictures of women with occasional videos thrown in. I look at maybe 30 percent of the pictures and 60 percent of the videos and I'm aroused by the sexuality of that girl. In other words I look at them from the viewpoint of a guy and get aroused. But I've noticed that for the other 70 percent, especially the pretty and shapely ones, what really arouses me is the woman herself. For that 70 percent its not so much the fantasy of being with her or her sexuality but its the enjoyment of her shape and looks and clothes (or partial lack therof). I guess in a way I look at the really pretty ones and can actually see myself being her.

I think if I could actually be one of those women for a while, to have that body and sexuality... that would be the greatest. I wouldnt want to leave behind who I am, but if I could do that at will and actually BE a gorgeous woman... wow.

I play alot of online games as well, and all (and I do mean ALL) of my characters are women. City of Heroes is the worst as you can make some interesting costumes, and I find myself playing Barbie with them and their clothes. Its a fascination that I just cant shake. Maybe I shoulda been one of those fashion designers, lol.

If you dress early and often and stay dressed after 'ahem' then that sexual rush goes away pretty fast too, it becomes 'normal' if that's what you are after.

 I usually am awake at night, work night shifts and just stay awake at night on my nights off. Last night the concept kinda hit me and there was just no desire for either. Kinda an "aha" moment I guess.

Now I sorta realize that I very well could do one without the other either way, whereas I had only thought of it as if I dress im gonna do that also kinda thing. The thought is a bit scary.

Banshee,

There is nothing immoral about crossdressing.  You need to distinguish between what is right and wrong on the one hand and what our social mores expect of us.  Conformity to socially acceptable stereotypes is not necessarily moral.  In fact it can be downright immoral if those stereotypes degrade people.  Gender stereotypes are ingrained in our society.  Over the past century many of these stereotypes have been challenged and modified by movements such as the women's movement.  For a man to transgress those steretypes by wearing women's clothing and makeup still is frowned upon by society.  But social ridicule is not the same as morality.

There can be many reasonable foundations for a genuine morality.  Is the action one that demonstrates love for others and for oneself?  Does the action harm another?  Does it violate anyone's rights?  Does it promote an injustice?  These are just some of the questions we can ask ourselves to determine what is morally right.  By any reasonable standard crossdressing is not immoral.

Have some ->-bleeped-<-ing fun!

Im just starting to get into cross dressing and I love it. I wanna be a girl sometimes and I want to go out into the world eventually. The only thing stopping me is that I live at home with my parents and am not out to them, but I kind of let them know by leaving dresses and wigs laying around my room...along with many bottles of alcohol and cigarette boxes...sometimes that helps.

I love my new cross dressing habit :-)

I too am a new cross dresser (1 month).

If you feel it's a habit then maybe you have an addictive personality. A therapist told me all people have addictive personalities. If we do something we enjoy we repeat it. There is nothing wrong as long as nobody gets hurt. Also it may not be a double life. Probably just making you more complete. It's still you living a more fulfilling life. If crossdressing were the only bad habit I've ever had I could have avoided alot of counseling and greif. I think you should have fun with it and "Go Girl"!!! Hugs, Genevieve