I agree with a lot of this stuff too, but I disagree a little bit too.

When I came out to my parents, they said, "But you don't act like a girl, you do so many manly things."  While that statement was partially true, there was a lot of stuff they didn't know about me.  I also tended to act differently around them than when I was with my friends.

My friends on the other hand, even before I came out said things like, "You are such a girl."  After I came out, I got a lot of, "Wow, you really make so much more sense now."

I did tend to hide a lot of things from people too.  I would act in a way that was congruent with my socially accepted gender.  I did things that I didn't really want to do just to fit in and be perceived as "normal".

I think they'll use this against you either way. If you're too masculine acting they're less likely to take you seriously, but if you're very feminine they'll just dismiss you as being a very confused gay guy.

I am somewhat Androg but learned how to be a girl to get by when needed. It took me forever to learn how to sit right how to cross my legs right and so on. I was a very good actor especially in business situations where I needed to be. Now I get to relax and sort of unlearn that stuff. Seems like wasted time now, but I also know at that time it was needed.
Myles

I was raised by 50 mentality.  I was born male, and raised that way.  'Boys don't cry', even when they get a whipping for something stupid.  But being I was an only child, Mom taught me things that girls were taught.  'Boys need to know these things too', would be her answer.  Maybe she saw something in me that Dad didn't.  Or maybe he did and was determined to drive it out.

But as a child I had gal friends and not many guy friends.  I never could and still real don't understand guys.  But for the years I hid, I had lost the ability to communicate with women.  But I am getting back there. 

We learn early on what is accepted and what isn't.  If you are beaten with something long enough, you ether conform or you learn to hide what isn't acceptable.  We learned to hide our true selves.  Some of us have had a long time to reverse the trait. Some are quicker.

Just my ramblings.

Janet

I was always considered fem. Regardless of how much I tried to act masculine. I was just acting to fulfill expectations. Well I quit acting. I am just myself now. Girlie as they come 

Those words (among others even more hurtful) were used against me by a person I loved like a mother. And given some thinking they forced me to take the decision to get away from them.

I remember replying to her when she say that: Really? I thought you realized my true self. Its funny you didnt see "anything" odd.

Either she was trying to get a reversal of my decision to transition or was so self centered that she never saw anything that she didnt wanted to see or...

I think if I was asked that now. I do have a proper answer.


Well, you see maybe you didnt see a thing because all that stuff I did it in alone and just for me. I mean I wish I could show them my wishes, my feelings while growing up and stuff. But I indeed was afraid of being thought odd or a freak.

Passing as a guy was hard, I remember how self conscious of my movements, body and voice I was. Plus HS was and always its truly a hell and having this sort of problems... omg /runs

Also my mother said that you do not act like a girl. However people less so close were not even surprised when they heard about my process. But before transition I could not use female clothes or make-up. (Even my nails were quit feminine, hair quit feminine too) You have to learn those things and also women typical manners like the most difficult: speaking.

I was raised mainly by women. Most of these things came naturally to me. The challenge for me was to act like a man. That turned out to be just that. An act. I got tired of acting and decided to be who I am.

I have never spoken masculine like swearing etc.
However my voice is the biggest problem. I always liked nice clothes and dressed very different than average boy of my age. Also my body manners are quit feminine expect that I am very poor to coordinate my body movements.

AAAAAAAAARRRRRRGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That's the reason I've had so much trouble convincing Mum I am what I am - she told me that she understands that I may not feel like a woman because of society's overly-girly stereotypes, but that I should ignore them because you don't have to be feminine to be female, however, I can't *possibly* be male 'cause I'm not masculine and never have been. I even told her I'm (more or less) gay, but that is completely irrelevant. The fact that one of my best friends is gay and he's more feminine than Mum herself is is irrelevant. The only important thing is that I've never posed a challenge to Chuck Norris. Gah!

Here I have not noticed much ''overly girl'' -stereotypes. However when you look some TV-programs made some other countries it may be different.

Quote from: SomeMTF on February 15, 2009, 05:22:02 AM
I have never spoken masculine like swearing etc.
However my voice is the biggest problem. I always liked nice clothes and dressed very different than average boy of my age. Also my body manners are quit feminine expect that I am very poor to coordinate my body movements.

Developing a fem. voice is easier than you might think. Do you have a piano handy? Start at A-3. That's the A below middle C. That's were the female voice generally starts. So run the A scale up and down while making sentences. "I picked a booger from my nose and flicked it on the wall La La La" or what ever. Have fun with it 

When you've spent, as I did, 13 years at all boy schools and a further 35 years in a male business environment and being a husband and father, you learn how to act like a boy, it's a matter of conformity and survival. Practice makes perfect, and many of us learn to 'do' boy (or girl) very convincingly indeed. So, when we announce to the world that we actually identify as the opposite gender, it's unremarkable that we get those "but you don't act like a girl/boy" reactions.

What I do find intensely gratifying and remarkable, however, is how quickly I and many other transitioners, have managed to unlearn and discard all those years of social conditioning.

Conditioning? Yes, some of it rather intense. But still, members of a certain team I was assigned to would call me mom rather than Capt. Just be yourself 

This also bring us the fundamental question , the difference between early and late transitioners. Or the group between them. Neither group is superior than other. The theoretical thinking that ''young transitioners'' are more real transsexual and the practice that some therapist and GLBT-community respect and listen more to ''late transitioners''. Both types of thinking should be wrong.

Everyone is someone. The difference is that there are more resources now as compared to when I was young 

Leiandra

QuoteMaybe that springs from "The way I feel isn't normal, there has to be something wrong with me, I'm a freak!" And, because of these feelings of shame, or awkwardness, denial... what have you, an attempt is made to 'rectify' that by adhering vehemently to the stereotypes of the physical gender you have to deal with in the hopes that it will somehow shake you out of these feelings and this growing knowledge that you aren't who you appear to be.

Thus, other people see you as 'one of the lads' or 'one of the girls' because that's who you're trying to be, in order to convince yourself that there's nothing wrong.

Maybe for some people, it is a role played to fool society, but for others it's a role played to fool oneself.

As a kid growing up I spent most of my time playing with girls and only had a few select guy friends. I was raised by my mom along with my sister and pretty well everything that needed done around the house was equally shared.

I believe my mom suspected something was different about me, and I don't think no amount of play acting can fool a mom, but the mom may choose to deny the truth, even possibly vehemently in atempt to protect the child they love from a cruel and ignorant lot that is called the general run of society.

She did catch me dressing up on a couple of different occasions but just walked away quietly not saying anything.  What could she do back then in the 60's? Where could she go to discus such a dilemma with. Especially back then where it was rumored they would lock you up and throw away the key, cheeeeeez wizzzz and if they didn't legalise which burning again. Well those fears certainly lent a lot to keeping me in the closet about things for a good many years.

But even then I would go to friends place and end up preferring to sit and have  a conversation with their wives. Up until then I don't think I worked very hard at being anything else except the one who resided within. Most places where I went were where there were gatherings of women.

It wasn't until in later years that I began to put on the act of being just as macho as the rest of the guys just so that I would fit in, where I thought I had to fit in if I wanted to live a normal life. It nearly cost me my life a few times playing those stupid games of proving I was just as much a man as they were game. When I got to the age of 32 I figured it was time for me to start a family before I got to old. Worst mistake I could have ever made. six years of hell playing the devils  advocate, and the rest is another long story.

Cindy

At least you did it, Cindy.

QuoteMaybe that springs from "The way I feel isn't normal, there has to be something wrong with me, I'm a freak!" And, because of these feelings of shame, or awkwardness, denial... what have you, an attempt is made to 'rectify' that by adhering vehemently to the stereotypes of the physical gender you have to deal with in the hopes that it will somehow shake you out of these feelings and this growing knowledge that you aren't who you appear to be.

Thus, other people see you as 'one of the lads' or 'one of the girls' because that's who you're trying to be, in order to convince yourself that there's nothing wrong.

Maybe for some people, it is a role played to fool society, but for others it's a role played to fool oneself.

Particularly when you don't have a name for it. I know when I was young I (incredibly naively) believed (and hoped) that everyone thought/felt the same way, that all girls daydreamed about being boys and were miserable that they weren't, but did the whole "female" thing regardless, and so I figured that if they could do it so well then I could too. So, *so* spectacularly wrong...

But I think that's the problem, certainly when you're young and haven't seen or experienced enough of the world to know better - if you (innocently/naively/stupidly/for whatever reason) believe everyone to experience things in a similar way to you, then how are you to know that your gender dysphoria isn't universal? In which case, when you see people going around behaving as they are, and you believe them to be feeling the same as you...you try to copy them because *obviously* if they're coping as they are, then why can't you?

Will

Quote from: Virginia Marie on February 16, 2009, 03:30:02 AM
So run the A scale up and down while making sentences. "I picked a booger from my nose and flicked it on the wall La La La" or what ever. Have fun with it 

LOL, perhaps saying something slightly more lady-like while practicing could be a good idea 

Z

What about tip toing through the tulips with me.  by Tiny Tim



There ya go my cosine from Mars.

Cindy