Quote from: DRAIN on February 17, 2009, 01:15:16 PM
yeah the iron john movement. and i wasn't calling her a misandrist, i was calling her comment misandRY. big difference.

i don't think the real issue is men oppressing women, it's anyone oppressing anyone regardless of WHY. sticking to masculinism vs feminism and things like that creates more of a divide in the issue rather than getting rid of it. kinda like if there wasn't such a hard lined binary in gender and gender roles, a lot of us wouldn't face so much discrimination over being transgender.

'scuse me? Forget Iron-John and lets go to the racialist thang. Like I said it's all well and good to promote equality for all while ignoring the historical aspect of the matter that places the start-lines in a staggered fashion on a straightaway!!

I'm not saying guys should be treated like pariahs, but doncha think it's pretty lame calling out the woman who gets beat-down regularly by her husband "vicious" or "man-hating" for calling him a bastard?

And please don't play the "technical" card of saying that calling someone's words "misandry" is not indicating that they would be a "misandrist" if they used "misandrogynous" tropes.

Owning up is definitely a two-way street.

Nichole

Quote from: DRAIN on February 17, 2009, 01:15:16 PM
yeah the iron john movement. and i wasn't calling her a misandrist, i was calling her comment misandRY. big difference.

i don't think the real issue is men oppressing women, it's anyone oppressing anyone regardless of WHY. sticking to masculinism vs feminism and things like that creates more of a divide in the issue rather than getting rid of it. kinda like if there wasn't such a hard lined binary in gender and gender roles, a lot of us wouldn't face so much discrimination over being transgender.

I don't think the real issue is Christians oppressing Jews, it's anyone oppressing anyone regardless of WHY.
I don't think the real issue is white people oppressing black people, it's anyone oppressing anyone regardless of WHY.
I don't think the real issue is straight people oppressing gay people, it's anyone oppressing anyone regardless of WHY.

Sorry, it doesn't work that way. Everyone suffers in an oppressive society, but the root isn't oppression in general, but one specific group oppressing another. The oppression creates those hard binaries, even while it denies their significance (e.g. "separate but equal"; "some of my best friends are..."; "not that there's anything wrong with that"). The resistance (racial civil rights, women's rights, gay rights) is what breaks them down, by first recognizing their significance.

Quote from: Nichole on February 17, 2009, 01:23:22 PM
I'm not saying guys should be treated like pariahs, but doncha think it's pretty lame calling out the woman who gets beat-down regularly by her husband "vicious" or "man-hating" for calling him a bastard?

i'm not. i'm calling out the woman that thinks because one man was like that, all of them are.

i dont know the politics of all of this, so all i'm saying is what i see. i can't argue this anymore cuz i'm not expressing myself well enough.

I thought I'd add my idea to the original topic.

I think that, yes, there is room for 'feminists' in the FTM community.

However, I also wanted to say what I think about 'feminism'. I agree that feminism is needed in some places, but I also want to acknowledge a human's tendency to over-correct on these matters. The women are fighting for rights, and those rights have been won. Now, they fight to make sure it stays that way and so that women are really treated equally. But here comes the over-correction: if the women are fighting so hard to be 'empowered', pretty soon they will overpower the men. We are trying to achieve balance, and so, if people give too much power to the feminists, we will throw ourselves out of balance again. Although, I don't think we are in danger of this happening just yet.

And I agree, I am more of a humanist than a feminist. I think everyone should be equal, regardless of sex, race, orientation, gender identity, disabilities, etc. We should all be treated fairly and equally, so that everyone feels that they have a place and that they get what they deserve.