# be a better comunity
# be willing to be seen together
# be out more in public

1 A better community of what?  People who can't find common interests much less needs.

2 What does this accomplish?

3 Living 24/7/365 isn't enough?  A cd who is afraid of discrimination can't or won't.  Most of the ones "out" are those who are in or are finished with transition.  Example:  Go to any Pride Parade and you will see people who only come out for it and maybe a once a month social.

If any changes are made 95% of them with be made in partnership with the Queer organizations.  GLAAD, NGLTF, HRC as examples.

Leigh

Quote from: Leigh on July 19, 2006, 10:30:05 AM
# be a better comunity
# be willing to be seen together
# be out more in public

1 A better community of what?  People who can't find common interests much less needs.

2 What does this accomplish?

3 Living 24/7/365 isn't enough?  A cd who is afraid of discrimination can't or won't.  Most of the ones "out" are those who are in or are finished with transition.  Example:  Go to any Pride Parade and you will see people who only come out for it and maybe a once a month social.

If any changes are made 95% of them with be made in partnership with the Queer organizations.  GLAAD, NGLTF, HRC as examples.

Leigh

I have to agree with Leigh on this.

* Which begs the question what is the Trans community.  When you look at "Our comunity" CD, TV, TS, IS etc. the only thing we have in common is clothing.

* Why do we have to be willing to be seen together, I don't understand that, what is stopping anyone from doing that now.  There are thousands of places everywhere where folks can meet if they so desire, but my problem is and this is only my problem, is that I don't consider this as a club, and I'm not comfortable socializing with other TS women who don't pass, and I'm sorry if this offends, but I don't want to be seen as TS, I just want to be seen as a woman.

* I live 24/7/365 and have been for the past year and I really think that I'm doing all I can for our community, being an active member in our local GLBT groups and taking an active part in their issues.   For myself when I have finally had the surgery, and all gender markers have been corrected, I will no longer have to worry about myself as a trans woman but simply as a woman getting on with her life, looking out for women's rights.  Don't get me wrong I support and will always stay an active member in the GLBT community as I am now, but as a woman my priorities may shift.  I think that this is a fact of TS life.

Steph

Quote from: Steph on July 19, 2006, 11:23:55 AM
* I live 24/7/365 and have been for the past year and I really think that I'm doing all I can for our community, being an active member in our local GLBT groups and taking an active part in their issues.   For myself when I have finally had the surgery, and all gender markers have been corrected, I will no longer have to worry about myself as a trans woman but simply as a woman getting on with her life, looking out for women's rights.  Don't get me wrong I support and will always stay an active member in the GLBT community as I am now, but as a woman my priorities may shift.  I think that this is a fact of TS life.

I have to agree with you Steph, especially on this last point.  That's exactly the approach I have been and plan to take.

Melissa

simple:
ts getting together like the way this group will get together in Oregonfor one of many.
NO hidden agendas here. If you really mean what you wrote then prove it by opening this site to all GLBT people in general.
Is no rocket science that we tranies have different issues such as medical./
Here in the city where I live we have a transgender group that meets in the general GLBT house, meet for movie and pop, great but do not have the political power that gays and lesbians do.
And if you do not want to participate don't. Now you have your surgery and is " tbam wham thank you mam". that's cool. Now you are a woman and no need to be confused by a trannie. I am A trannie and always will
If you are dysphoric about this idea is ok with me am familiar with the subject. This is a FORUM after all. And am not offended by any of the responses.
The idea came from the realization that some members/guests here that we as TS are not quite welcomed in the GAy Lesbian circle, they enlist our support and go in drag while on a parade. But they do not understand our issues because many believe that we are going through a phase and one day we will wake up to reality and realize that we are gay.
I asked for your opinioon and I got it , loud and clear. Thank you
sheila18

Quote from: sheila18 on July 19, 2006, 12:30:14 PM
simple:
ts getting together like the way this group will get together in Oregonfor one of many.

and that is great, there is nothing wrong with that if that's what you like to do.  Now if I were to organize one of those events here for TS where I live there would be me and Heather, another TS who lives near by and that's it.  We are a community of two and neither one of us likes to be out together.  We just don't hit it off.  but that doesn't mean i don't support her.

QuoteNO hidden agendas here. If you really mean what you wrote then prove it by opening this site to all GLBT people in general.

This site is open to everyone.  I would say that many of our members would consider that they themselves are also a part of the GLBT community.  The opening paragraph to the site rules, which apply to everyone is as follows:

Every one is welcome at Susan's Place if you follow the basic rules: This site is an open support area and is not generally sexually oriented. This site is for the discussion of issues related to gender and may include Transsexualism, Transvestism, Crossdressing, or other related topics. This web site exists try to provide constructive input and support.

QuoteIs no rocket science that we tranies have different issues such as medical./
Here in the city where I live we have a transgender group that meets in the general GLBT house, meet for movie and pop, great but do not have the political power that gays and lesbians do.
And if you do not want to participate don't. Now you have your surgery and is " tbam wham thank you mam". that's cool. Now you are a woman and no need to be confused by a trannie. I am A trannie and always will
If you are dysphoric about this idea is ok with me am familiar with the subject. This is a FORUM after all. And am not offended by any of the responses.

Not to be confused with being someone who doesn't participate... Recently in Ontario they de-list the previously funded GRS/SRS, thanks to the preceding conservative government, now we are right back where we started lobbying our members of parliament, I am actively doing that making sure that my voice and the concerns of others are being heard, and there is a good possibility that the procedures will be re-listed due to a human rights decision in our favour.  Also, at the request of Queens University, I have given talks to Queens Students on TS issues, what we face, our fears, our hopes and dreams etc...  I was asked by the a local psychiatrist to talk to a panel of medical students from the Kingston General Hospital who have just finished there medical training and were starting their specialty training in the field of psychiatry, this panel also had a member from the Canadian Forces Royal Military College in attendance.  At the end of a very exhaustive discussion, "they" agreed that based on what I presented that GID should be removed from DSM-IV.  I support the local GLBT movement by taking part in as many events and supporting fund raising where ever I can and we have a social gathering once per month.

I believe that I have done much participating, for one, simply by coming out at work and showing everyone from my employer to the school boards, to the schools that I can do my job as a TS woman and that the fears for their children that parents voiced their concerns over, threatening to take my job and livelihood, were unfounded.

QuoteThe idea came from the realization that some members/guests here that we as TS are not quite welcomed in the GAy Lesbian circle, they enlist our support and go in drag while on a parade. But they do not understand our issues because many believe that we are going through a phase and one day we will wake up to reality and realize that we are gay.

and like it or not that is the way that many GL folks see us, along with just as many straight folks. 

QuoteI asked for your opinioon and I got it , loud and clear. Thank you
sheila18

Yes you asked for an opinion, you didn't ask for one that would agree with your thinking.  I'm sorry if I offended you and I take it from the tone of your reply that I did.  However I speak my mind, I am who I am.

Steph

Quote from: Steph on July 19, 2006, 01:25:45 PM
  I'm sorry if I offended you and I take it from the tone of your reply that I did.  However I speak my mind, I am who I am.

Steph

Steph no offense taken, just replied in the same tone my post was replied.
  I do not believe in letting others fight my battles.  Thank you for agreeing with me
Cindianna; girl when you are right you are right   
Sheila

Quote from: sheila18 on July 19, 2006, 01:56:21 PM

Cindianna; girl when you are right you are right   
Sheila

Sheila: 

Cindi is always right, right Cindi?

I'm reading your minds right now and LMAO...


tinkerbell

yep 

Quote from: Steph on July 19, 2006, 01:25:45 PMI would say that many of our members would consider that they themselves are also a part of the GLBT community.

Good point. I would think that since a considerable fraction of at least TS folks are also gay/lesbian/bisexual, those of us who are can choose to be vocal as GLB folks, without having to mention the T part.

~ umop

Quote from: sheila18 on July 19, 2006, 12:30:14 PM
simple:
ts getting together like the way this group will get together in Oregonfor one of many.
NO hidden agendas here. If you really mean what you wrote then prove it by opening this site to all GLBT people in general.
Is no rocket science that we tranies have different issues such as medical./
Here in the city where I live we have a transgender group that meets in the general GLBT house, meet for movie and pop, great but do not have the political power that gays and lesbians do.
And if you do not want to participate don't. Now you have your surgery and is " tbam wham thank you mam". that's cool. Now you are a woman and no need to be confused by a trannie. I am A trannie and always will
If you are dysphoric about this idea is ok with me am familiar with the subject. This is a FORUM after all. And am not offended by any of the responses.
The idea came from the realization that some members/guests here that we as TS are not quite welcomed in the GAy Lesbian circle, they enlist our support and go in drag while on a parade. But they do not understand our issues because many believe that we are going through a phase and one day we will wake up to reality and realize that we are gay.
I asked for your opinioon and I got it , loud and clear. Thank you
sheila18

You know...there's this japanese proverb which I love......never mind...you get the idea....LOL..........   Sorry I coudn't resist.  LMAO big time!!!
There I added two more letters...LMAOBT!!!! >

tinkerbell

Quote from: sheila18 on July 19, 2006, 12:30:14 PMIf you really mean what you wrote then prove it by opening this site to all GLBT people in general.

the site is open to all GLBT people in general.

Quote from: The RulesEvery one is welcome at Susan's Place if you follow the basic rules: This site is an open support area and is not generally sexually oriented. This site is for the discussion of issues related to gender and may include Transsexualism, Transvestism, Crossdressing, or other related topics. This web site exists try to provide constructive input and support.

Quote from: Steph on July 19, 2006, 11:23:55 AM

I have to agree with Leigh on this.

* Which begs the question what is the Trans community.  When you look at "Our comunity" CD, TV, TS, IS etc. the only thing we have in common is clothing.

Clothing?
Clothing?!?
Clothing!!!!!
Clothing is fabric we put on our bodies.

I believe what we ALL have in common is Human Rights.
This includes the right to determine our own gender identity and gender expression.
And that's a lot more important than fabric.

-Emerald 

tinkerbel:
  I figure that you would get a chucle out of it    girllll

And Susan:
      you truly have class.

fox news reported some time ago that Transgender rights law –  and they define it as: "that is protecting the rights of people whose identity does not match the genitalia they were born with" –,  has exploded in the field and in the political arena, becoming a new wave of civil rights in this country, according to experts. I odn't know who these experts are.
And so called experts concerned about what is called "affixing privileges to specialized groups" say that the transgendered population is taking privilege too far.


Sheila18

Quote from: Emerald on July 20, 2006, 05:51:40 AM

Clothing?
Clothing?!?
Clothing!!!!!
Clothing is fabric we put on our bodies.

I believe what we ALL have in common is Human Rights.
This includes the right to determine our own gender identity and gender expression.
And that's a lot more important than fabric.

-Emerald 

Hello Em,

Yep you're so right that everyone on the planet should have equal human rights, and I would say that fortunately there are quite a few places in this world where we can enjoy those rights.  I apologize if my comment on clothing being the only thing in common offended members but I stand by that, as we don't face the same discrimination issues.  I believe that in the USA that most CD/TV enjoy all the human rights presently granted by your government across the USA, unless they were either gay or lesbian, of course.

Steph

Quote from: Steph on July 20, 2006, 12:58:06 PM
Hello Em,

I believe that in the USA that most CD/TV enjoy all the human rights presently granted by your government across the USA, unless they were either gay or lesbian, of course.

Steph

Perhaps that is true all over the World, here in Upstate NY that is not the case am sorry to say also here CD/TV are politically  considered Gay/Lesbian, sorry guys you are mixed up with the rif raf   ( this is the tread under discussion, correct? Politics, not Medicine or Psychiatry and their scietific definitions) if I remember we try to stay on topic.   

When Bush used the tag 'Natural' i believe he was targeting Transgendered people including TV and CD at least here in the US. he could have used Traditional Marriage as in the past.

Just a dialogue 2 unify our sisterly/ brotherly love  , Sheila18

Quote from: sheila18 on July 19, 2006, 12:30:14 PM
we as TS are not quite welcomed in the GAy Lesbian circle, they enlist our support and go in drag while on a parade. But they do not understand our issues because many believe that we are going through a phase and one day we will wake up to reality and realize that we are gay.

sheila18

I just saw the The Simpsons episode where Homer sees some other families at Mr Burns' annual picnic that are well-behaved angels. His family appears as devils to him. "Room for one more inside, dad. Yeah Homeboy."  "One of us. One of us." they chant, the riff from Todd Browning's Freaks.

We are all freaks. Republicans cannot be disincluded on their own say so. They became Republicans with all that denotes now. That is as inexplicable to me as what I am to them.

Yeah we lack community on this planet, it's a 'known issue'. Republicans have been exploiting it for gain and for power for a while now.

Let us assume (quite correctly I think) that marriage is usually defined as a union between a man and a woman.

Yes, that definition would exclude same-sex marriages. We leave that for the Gay/Lesbian community to deal with for the time being because.....

The question we are really dealing with is: How does this common and traditional definition of marriage affect marriage-minded Transsexuals?

From the courts of New Zealand I found this gem of logic:
"There is no social advantage in the law not recognizing the validity of the marriage
of a transsexual in the sex of reassignment. It would merely confirm the factual
reality. If the law insists that genetic sex is the pre-determinant for entry into a
valid marriage, then a male-to-female transsexual can contract a valid marriage
with a woman and female-to-male transsexual can contract a valid marriage with
a man. To all outward appearances such would be same-sex marriages.

Where a person has undergone medical and surgical procedures that have
effectively given that person the physical conformation of a person of a specified
sex, there is no lawful impediment to a person marrying as a person of that sex."

Natural man and natural woman? If you are born TS you ARE natural, exactly as Mother Nature made you!

This isn't about political lobbying but a coming together of minds.
Pssst....I don't think the politicians are reading our posts.
Work smarter, not harder... Work together!

-Emerald 

Quote from: Emerald on July 20, 2006, 04:15:48 PM

Let us assume (quite correctly I think) that marriage is usually defined as a union between a man and a woman.

Yes, that definition would exclude same-sex marriages. We leave that for the Gay/Lesbian community to deal with for the time being because.....

The question we are really dealing with is: How does this common and traditional definition of marriage affect marriage-minded Transsexuals?

From the courts of New Zealand I found this gem of logic:
"There is no social advantage in the law not recognizing the validity of the marriage
of a transsexual in the sex of reassignment. It would merely confirm the factual
reality. If the law insists that genetic sex is the pre-determinant for entry into a
valid marriage, then a male-to-female transsexual can contract a valid marriage
with a woman and female-to-male transsexual can contract a valid marriage with
a man. To all outward appearances such would be same-sex marriages.

Where a person has undergone medical and surgical procedures that have
effectively given that person the physical conformation of a person of a specified
sex, there is no lawful impediment to a person marrying as a person of that sex."

Natural man and natural woman? If you are born TS you ARE natural, exactly as Mother Nature made you!

This isn't about political lobbying but a coming together of minds.
Pssst....I don't think the politicians are reading our posts.
Work smarter, not harder... Work together!

-Emerald 

And I agree with that completely.  I was TS at birth (diagnosed) and therefore if I were to marry a nat male then my marriage would be valid in the eye's of many law's around the world, but sadly apparently not in many of the sates in the US.

Steph

emerald:
excellent find  

you gotta love  it, sheila18

emerald:
thanks 
Sh18