I'm curious as to if this is a scenario for an extreme type of crossdresser:

Someone that starts out crossdressing but gets obsessed and in love with the "female world" that they not only want to dress but to become a woman, have a woman's body, feel like a woman, identify as a woman, etc... and thus does hormones, cosmetic surgery and basically transitions.  This could also be like a male that was content with their own life till they started exploring the female world and then found out that they like the female world better than the male world, to the point that they would abandon the male world in favor of the female world.

Is this kind of possible person an extreme crossdresser or another type of transsexual?

I'm just curious as to if the motivations of crossdressers can go that far....

I think for a long time that was the standard progression more or less.

MY answer is "YES". It's a new world open for exploration. I would like to become TG but $$$ are a problem. I'm 54 already. I do not regret my past life. There were many experiences that most people would pay big bucks to have. I have grown children. Seperated from a decent woman. We can't live together. Lived in Panama and Honduras for 24.5 years. Great life,but the desire was always there. I am not sure on what "EXTREME" is. Is that a Drag Queen? Some are extreme, look like clowns. Is extreme, dressing often as possible? Are thoughts of dressing dominating my thought process? Like evertime I see another dress or shoes I want them? Like when I get up in the morning and see the trousers for work and curse the world because there is a nice skirt and blouse in plain veiw. Steel toed boots instead of those nice pumps and flats right there enticing me! Hoping my nails won't get broken before the days out! Who in the hell is going to do my nails again after this! Why can't they all pay attention? I'm trying to be en femme! What's wrong with those people!!!   Is that extreme?

I guess I'm on the edge of finding out if this is true...

..or if I never was a cross-dresser..but didn't realise it 'till later in life

Chrissty

Extreme:In some localities merely having the confidence and courage to dress and go out in public is extreme.

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Post Merge: February 27, 2009, 04:15:44 PM

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Almost forgot. You mentioned what motivates a person to be an extreme dresser? If I see well dressed pretty lady I say to myself "Self, you can do better than that." So I do my best to prove it and usually it happens. Now I've been challenged, to the EXTREME!

Ok, what I meant was the idea that someone who starts out as a crossdresser, but ends up wanting to become a member of the opposite gender (without a lifelong issue of gender dysphoria that afflicts many transsexuals) and going as far to transition is either an extreme crossdresser or another type of transsexual?

I know quite a few transwomen who started their gender exploration as crossdressers or as drag queens.  I think it is pretty common to explore femininity
before deciding to transition.
But before someone gets offended........everyone is unique.

Ok, maybe "extreme crossdresser" isn't the right word but what I meant is a crossdresser that goes beyond crossdressing, things like hormones and breast implants, developing a female voice, wanting to feel like a woman, etc...

i suppose it's possible. i mean when you've got a rigid gender role separation, there are bound to be people who prefer the benefits of the opposite gender role. there were women throughout history who lived as men out of convenience, so i suppose the same could be true of some male crossdressers.

 I would think that if a crossdresser made it through to be on HRT without having and disphoria would have to lie to theripists to get through. Also , without having a disphoria i would think it would all catch up to them one day and they would end up regretting it.

Psychology still hasn't really found the answer to your question and I won't live long enough for them to finally get there.  A psychologist in Canada coined the term Autogynophilia which can cause hysterical explosions in the Transsexual part of the spectrum.  It boils down to a person who is in love (philia) with themself (auto) looking like a woman (gyno).  This is the idea behind those of us who do go from CD as a lark, and end up applying for therapy, hormones and surgery especially if the cycle begins after age 25.  I am one of those who thought that my gender issues would be completely fulfilled if I put on a racoon cap an old teeshirt with womens lib slogans on it, a skirt and two pounds of makeup went out and made a fool of myelf for an evening, and then did it again the next holloween.  I can be big about it, I was wrong.  In retrospect, I now know that I have had "Dysphoric" feelings about my gender for over half a century.  I did not know what to call the feelings earlier, and since wanting to have a sex change was bad, and I was not bad, I couldn't feel like I had GIDS and didn't.    When you said Extreme earlier, my first impression was from a wig page listed on this site that I looked at earlier.  OOOHHH!!  those look fun to wear!!  

I admit that we TG's can lose track of reality some times, but thats a bad thing???  I don't feel bad.

Once again the real problem tends to be the need for labels and categories...

Before I came to this site I never realised how uptight some people could get over the category their GID fell into. (I'm pleased that this thread has not degenerated to that level)

I just feel that those who whish to strictly enforce the category boundaries, and separate themselves from others are basically displaying a deep insecurity in themselves.

I'm insecure at the moment, but I have the maturity to understand that we are all different and I accept and love that diversity. Even the most determined transsexual woman will still be considered a drag queen by society before they can pass 100%, and integrate.

My view is that anyone who cross-dresses is potentially transsexual, and I just see all the "categories" as a sliding scale our personalities move between as life unfolds. At any time we may be "seen" to stop in a category that suits us, and feel comfortable. Personal trauma may make us re-evaluate our lives, and the perceived category changes as we pause to dig deeper into who we are, and what we are living for.

It is human nature to try to explain our feelings to ourselves. If we grow up in an environment where changing sex is not considered a possibility, even if we are transsexual we will deal with our feelings through what we consider is possible to achieve a level of comfort. With the increasing awareness of more possibilities through the internet, and increased availability of medical resources, such boundaries become challenged and our perception can change.

So as I said before, I have no problem with being labelled extreme cross-dresser, as it may enable others to understand that I am moving on to deal with my evolving acceptance of transsexuality.



Chrissty

I found out that  was a crossdresser nearly four years ago at age 56. I never knew that I was one.  I never had the desire to put on a feminine article when I was young.  I did feel that I was a little different (once again never knew why).

When I accepted that I was a CD, the pieces began to fall in place. I felt complete and liberated. It would be another year when I was content with being a crossdresser. I have always been secure in myself. Being a cd and transgender was destined to be a part of my life.

Gennee

I don't have my copy of the DSM: IV-TR handy, but iirc there are two subtypes for GID. There is the kind you are born with and then there is acquired GID. I could never find any greater detail, but I have yet to use all of the resources at my disposal. There is a slight chance I read this in the ICD-10 though.

In any case I would say the answer is yes. I actually had a lecturer in my Human Sexuality class come in and talk about the evolving nature of sexuality. It's not as fixed as we like to think, for some it is, but for others it may be rather fungible.

I don't think I would put much stock in the DSM...I would be hesitant to equate gender with sexuality too.

I say if that hypothetical person became a man or woman, and called themselves a man or woman and identified as that then that is what they are. They might of identified as a crossdresser at one stage but that that time passed.

I would call it someone that once identified as a crossdresser that is now a woman or a man. Do we need to get more complex than that?

At one stage I identified as a crossdresser untill I figured out that wasn't me. Was I ever a crossdresser? Maybe, I did think I was. I am a strong believer in self identification, so at that stage I was. But now that I know better I would say that I was an androgyne all along and had not found the right words or possibility yet.

I believe this can absolutely occur and have seen it happen to individuals in my life.  One CD in particular I know, once deciding she wanted to explore womanhood, began to tout the transsexual line in order to no longer be identified as a cross dresser, even though that meant changing her whole history that she had previously shared.  Perhaps she just didn't 'realize' her GID until then, or perhaps she had to convince herself it was real and not the result of a paraphilia that went too far.  Only she knows I guess.

Quote from: Nicky on March 02, 2009, 01:44:07 PM
I don't think I would put much stock in the DSM...I would be hesitant to equate gender with sexuality too.

I know the DSM is lagging a bit as is the ICD-10 in some areas, but I think it's still a somewhat relevant text. I agree it's not the sole basis for a conclusion but I don't see why it can't be included or any of its ideas irrelevant. Why too must gender be something which remains fixed over a lifetime?

I think that if we understand gender to be largely a social construction it is entirely possible for someone to change genders. To be specific, when I say gender I use the WHO definition: Gender is the socially constructed roles, behaviors, activities, and attributes that a given society considers appropriate for men and women.

I agree though it was a bit of a stretch with gender and sexuality and I'm not trying to say that they are the same, but rather point out that other related areas are not as fixed as the dominant culture would believe; ergo, if one can change, why not the other?

For me cross dressing was a strong desire to touch my dream of wanting to be a girl. But it wasn't until many years later before I discovered the word transsexual and what it meant then my desire made sense and knew who and what I was. But up till then I could only believe I was ->-bleeped-<-, because that was all I knew to identify as during those earlier days. A well guarded secret that no one should ever know. Once I knew who and what I was nothing could stop me, short of death, from crossing over to being whom I knew myself to be since earliest memory.

Cindy

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Post Merge: March 03, 2009, 01:46:11 AM

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Hi Chrissty, I swear you are looking prettier all the time. 

Cindy

I didnt even know what a crossdresser was until I came to Susans's and someone asked me if I was a crossdresser.
I started wearing womens jeans in my teenage years because guys ones didnt fit me properly and I had small breasts as well. But I thought I was a guy and I wanted to get married to a beautiful woman.
I worked out and everything trying to look like a man and change my body. I spent 20 years trying to be a guy and it didnt work. I was crossdressing I suppose was I?
It's confusing for me. I guess the next step up from crossdressing is being a woman impersonator then Transsexual is the final form. Im not too sure. But after researching and going on HRT I have been diagnosed as Paranoid schizophrenic Heterosexual Transsexual. I guess Im paranoid at being a person who looks and sounds like a woman but I wanted to be with a girl and a guy. I must be Bi-sexual or something.

It  certainly is easy to get too much of a good thing. becoming obsessive with crossdressing can result in a period of questioning. there was a time that i could have/would have walked the path that you described. I have watched others walk a very similar path toward TS, only to realise late in the game that that was not the path they needed to be on.

cross dressers are an extreme. Slipping into the fem spirit as time allows, then a few moments later walking out of the house as a modern man. forever having the need to be someone your not. A man ends up with two sets of friends, one for each spirit.  its a bit like oil and water, they just don't mix. So whats a girl to do?
pick one spirit over the other? He thinks not.  (that's just one spirits opinion)