As some of you are aware I transitioned about 10 years then de-transitioned.  Before you jump to any conclusions, being a girl wasn't too hard for me, nor was it not my style, nor uncomfortable, it is just for strongly personal (religious) reasons I transitioned back to being male.  Now I'm not a reparative therapy case or anything - I still very much deal with gender dysphoria, I've just decided to attempt to live with it.

After coming back to male-hood I've been trying to find a balance - a way to not be immediately identified as male.  Well that might be impossible with how I present now, but what I mean is, to not immediately have all those male attributes and expectations put upon me.  I am incredibly open about my past as sort of a therapeutic way to somehow allow people to see the girl that exists within me even if I'm choosing to wear my 'boy-suit' now.

More than anything I want people to see past my exterior and see the real me, but I know that is nigh impossible, so I've been trying to do things to my exterior that facilitate this short of transition.  I've always been rather feminine and expressive in general - though this often, in my 'boy suit', just gets me questions of if I am gay.

When I transitioned it was never about the clothes - I was happy because I was being accepted as female and all of the male stigma removed.  It didn't matter what I wore.  Unfortunately today, wearing all male clothes just gets me pinned as a male (no duh, right?).

So I figure I need to strike up a balance.  I will not transition again, but it doesn't mean I cannot seek to be more and more androgynous. 

It's like my wish is this and it will sound weird:
Now I wish I looked like a girl who was presenting as a male but who seemed and felt female to all those who interacted with me.  So no matter how 'male' I got, people would still see girl, even if I present male.  Now I imagine for an FTM this would be their worst nightmare, but for me, it is what I want so badly.  Then, people would have an easier time seeing me for how I wish to be seen while still allowing me to live as a 'male' and thus fulfill certain commitments I've made (more personal, religious stuff).

Bah, well to attempt this I am going back on E.  I was on T for about 6 months to regain masculine features when I de-transitioned and I could kick myself for it now.  I have a face full of fuzz to blame on that 6 months of T that didn't really grow much before.  (I had an orchidectomy btw, so I'm not producing significant amounts of T on my own.)   I dropped the T because I hated what it was doing to my body and how I felt.  I had been a passable female before.  I think though now I'm going to go back on E.  I was on it for years before, so I doubt there will be any further changes but at least I'll feel better.

I also start my gym membership today.  Over the years being male I stopped caring about what I looked like (figured I was just gonna be taken as some dumpy guy anyhow) so I let myself go a little.  I've already lost 25 lbs and am getting down to my girl weight, but now I have these awful lovehandles I want GONE - so working out might be the only way to get them to go.

Getting rid of the excess weight will also allow me to wear feminine form fitting clothing again.

Finally I intend to get electrolysis and take care of that face fuzz for good.

My wife (who knows EVERYTHING) btw, thinks I'm just being vain which can bother me sometimes.  Honestly, I wouldn't go to such lengths with my appearance if people just accepted that the guy they are staring at across the table when interacting with him actually wants to be seen as a girl.  But since the ability to perceive another's gender in a face to face conversation didn't appear to be as important as perceiving their sex, it wasn't naturally selected for among humans, I need to do something to give them a clue.

The ironic thing of all of it is that I barely cared what I wore when I was a girl unless I was going out for something special, and now that I'm back to being a guy, I feel I have to take so much more care to appear how I want to appear!  Drat the luck!

PS) People who have tried to diagnose where I fit in the transgendered spectrum ask me this question all the time, so I figure I'll get it out of the way.  Yes, I do feel like I am a girl.  However, I strongly believe that I am a male bodied individual with a deformity in the gender identity section of my brain that makes me think this way.  Hence, I decided to remain male despite the strong identification with being female and even though I was very comfortable when I lived as a female.  Does that make me a TS?  No clue - but I tend to identify as an Androgyne until a better definition comes up.

that just makes you awsome

It does indeed.

I was wondering though. How is being more androgynous any more acceptable to your beliefs?

Forgive me if the whole thing sounds like you are afraid to do what you actually desire. You are trying to let on to people that you actually want to be seen and treated as a woman, yet busting a (figurative  ) nut to avoid actually being one while staying true to your 'male' sex. But at the same time you are cutting the definition of what is not transitioned awfully fine. Why bother with such a farse? It sounds like you are trying to get what you want while hiding that fact from yourself.

I could get that it probabably all comes down to personal belief but sometimes we can be too stubourn for our own good.

Quote from: Nicky on March 11, 2009, 04:19:20 AM
It does indeed.

I was wondering though. How is being more androgynous any more acceptable to your beliefs?

Forgive me if the whole thing sounds like you are afraid to do what you actually desire. You are trying to let on to people that you actually want to be seen and treated as a woman, yet busting a (figurative  ) nut to avoid actually being one while staying true to your 'male' sex. But at the same time you are cutting the definition of what is not transitioned awfully fine. Why bother with such a farse? It sounds like you are trying to get what you want while hiding that fact from yourself.

I could get that it probabably all comes down to personal belief but sometimes we can be too stubourn for our own good.

Well to put it simply.  I don't wish to live full time as a female or have SRS for those personal reasons.  Anything up to that is fine.  My specific church has little to do with this, it has more to do with some powerful experiences I had while transitioned that told me not to go all the way.  No, I cannot explain it specifically, but just saying.  My wife is okay with me re-embracing my feminine side; she says jokingly, "so long as she comes home to a physiological boy each night."  She is cool cause she knew what she marrying into.  I was totally up front with her, and for that matter have been totally up front with my church which has made them both pretty accepting of whatever craziness I might do.  We all agree that denial of my feelings is NOT the answer.

Simply put, I'm looking for methods to cope with my gender dysphoria without living FT again.  There aren't exactly tutorials for this you know.

Seems a lot of people don't like to talk about coping techniques.  *Notes concourses of transsexuals chanting "Transition, transition, transition..."* 

Hey, there has to be a middle point somewhere, and like any spectrum of people some of us are going to be there.  Perhaps we're only passing through, on our way to or from, but there we be.  But I'd like to think that there are all sorts of pleasant places that are not all boy or all girl, but exist in the spaces between. 

hi interalia, welcome to the forum.

your discription sounds a lot like me, glad to have someone else who is trying to find that balance between full time girl and beinbg seen as male. though ive not transitioned before, and now that im become less and less male, most people think im transistioning now or will be even though i tel them im not. the only way ive found to be not seen as male is to reduce the number of male signifyers and replace them with a few female ones. i too dont want to be immediately identified as male and have all those male attributes and expectations put upon me. i sort of want to be one of the girls but be one, in that sence. your right its not about the clothes, when i have gone out in full fem mode ive felt its not me, im not that sort of girl. though i do feel like im a girl, just one that happens to look quite male, though there are lots of girls out there that look and act more male than me so why can i not be a girl.
i did get identifyed as a ftm once and that seemed to be a really good way of looking at it to me. sort of comning from the other direction.
im also waiting to get on estrogen as a way to balance my head and body out to some extent though need to find a balance with this as can easly go to far with it. im interested at how your wife sees it all as mine is sort of the same

I'm also going through a similar thing though going the opposite way being born female. I do identify strongly as male, however, at least at this point I've realized that transition isn't for me. It's not easy to find the happy in between as I can't go long periods of time presenting completely female or male.

So I'm trying to find a look that works for me, that's androgynous but where if I feel like looking girly I can and if I want to look more masculine I can do that aswell... If any of that makes sense.

There are many places along the gender continuum, and it takes a lot of soul searching to find what's right for each of us, however life in the middle, or as it feels to me more accurately described as out on the edge, isn't always the easiest choice.

Your situation sounds rather similar to mine, I don't deal much with body dysphoria except for hair, but social dysphoria can be rather intense for me. I don't like being perceived as male.

Z

Wouldn't worry about it too much Interalia.

We all have own way of being ourselves and there's no correct way. I actively try to dress a bit boyish butch because it works with the girls I like and some straight guys.

At the end of the day enjoy where you are and make the most of it.

AND, don't ever let any religious bigots try to tell you what is right or wrong in this regard.

I reckon I'm among the wimpier androgynes on this board. My beard and pony tail reaching to the small of my back make something of a statement. Yet if someone wants to tag me as male (or female) that's their problem. I don't care if the bank teller addresses me as Sir (calling me Boy might raise my hackles, but that's a different issue).

At work, most people know me. That could be age-related; there are no other workers of retirement age there. I don't want to be known as masculine or feminine, young or old there, just as someone who works with a whole heart every day, someone reliable, even tempered, and intelligent.

In social life, I have never been one to go out with the guys. For decades, I have refused to go to men-only events. Recently, my wife wanted me to support one of her charities by going to a men, single-malt Scotch, and cigars night; I couldn't. Rarely am I asked to integrate an all women event, though I was included in a party my daughter gave to honor her "other" mothers. When I am included, I get asked if I am uncomfortable being the only "man"; of course I am not.

With close friends, I am a little more open--though never totally. For one recently out of the hospital, my wife and I prepared dinner for her, a vegetarian, and her husband. My wife put together an antipasto platter and made tiramisu for dessert; I cooked the asparagus risotto and the braised fennel in their kitchen. All told me my cooking was exceptional and my new pink (petal, actually) long sleeved polo shirt, becoming.

My wife and I are close. It'll be twenty-one years a week from now, and we lived together for years more. She might object to my taking E, and doesn't understand why I would prefer a female body--she likes the one I am in now. Otherwise, she loves me for who I am, and supports the ways I express myself. That is what I want most. It sounds Iteralia as though you also have a wife who loves and accepts you. Nice.

Welcome to our forest, make yourself at home,
S