From your picture Cindi, I can't see anything but a happy young woman.

Melissa

QuoteSomebody who has come to terms with it, but is suffering fom severe dysphoria may also have low self esteem.

I don't have a low self esteem I don't think.  I hate my life, I don't like the way the world relates to me, I don't understand why I'm this way, and I am not happy, there is no doubt about that.  But, I try and be a good person, and live my life for others, and make other people around me happy, and that makes my life worthwhile.  It gives some value to my being here, so I don't think my self esteem is all that low. So, I voted average, I guess.  Although, I really don't know what 'average' is.

QuoteSomebody who has come to terms with it, but is suffering fom severe dysphoria may also have low self esteem.

Quote from: Jessica on July 24, 2006, 04:26:55 PM
I don't have a low self esteem I don't think.  I hate my life, I don't like the way the world relates to me, I don't understand why I'm this way, and I am not happy, there is no doubt about that.  But, I try and be a good person, and live my life for others, and make other people around me happy, and that makes my life worthwhile.  It gives some value to my being here, so I don't think my self esteem is all that low.

That's why I used the word "may".  But honestly, are you happy with the person you are right now?  If so, great.  If not, that's ok.  There's nothing wrong with being happy with who you are, but transitioning anyways.  I was mostly referring to myself when I wrote those statements.  I thought I had good self esteem at the time, but it wasn't until I truly started becoming happier with myself that I realized I didn't back then.

Melissa

QuoteBut honestly, are you happy with the person you are right now?

Hell no!

Part of that is my belief system though. I am going to suffer in this life, I don't know why, but that's the way it is.  But, if I live for other people and get enough karma stacked in my favor then maybe my next life I won't be in this situation.

Either I'll be a Happy Guy that's happy in that role
Or I'll be a Happy Girl that's happy in that role (my preferred obviously)

But, either way, I won't be in this constant state of knowing who I am and not being able to get there because of the negative karmic consequences of making that decision.

Quote from: cindianna_jones on July 24, 2006, 04:28:31 PM
Melissa, you are too kind. You are the sweetness the world has lost. A treasure to be sure.

Cindi

Yes,she certainly is.

Nero

I think having good self-esteem means being happy with who you are.  I also believe that self-esteem is analog in nature and can change on a daily basis, but is fairly constant for the most part.  I'm mostly happy with who I am, I just have some "details" to fix that will cost 10-15K and I should be all set.

---

Quote from: cindianna_jones on July 24, 2006, 04:28:31 PM
Melissa, you are too kind. You are the sweetness the world has lost. A treasure to be sure.

Cindi

Quote from: Nero on July 24, 2006, 04:37:30 PM
Yes,she certainly is.

Nero

Thank you very much you two.

Melissa

From the "True Selves" book, page 116:

Poor Self-Esteem

For most of their lives, transsexxuals have had to hide their true selves from the world. This deception, carried out over an extended period of time, results in feelings of unworthiness...

Low self-esteem runs rampant amoung transsexuals and causes many of them to become loners and underacheivers, to take dead-end jobs, and to develop problems with health, grooming, and body language.

The self-esteem issues that transsexual patients struggle with include the following:

- Poor self-esteem because they are different from other people and have had a hard time fitting in or being accepted

- Poor self-esteem because it's hard for them to like or love themselves when so much of their existence is based on deception

- Poor self-esteem because they have the wrong body and genitals

I answered yes and no could be better.
For most of my life I got my self-esteam from how other responded to me. Hence I was a people pleaser. But now things are changing and I'm just begining to find out who and what I am in my own eyes.
So am I who I want to be NO. Am I who I was a year ago No. Am I changing YES. Is it for better I DON"T KNOW. Do I like myself better than I did before MAYBE ... Aha ..... YES I DO.  Do I think I'm better than anyone else NO. Do I think I'm less than other people NO.
So who or where do I get a my concept of my self-esteam from now? 
I'm really not sure.

Jillieann

Quote from: Kate on July 24, 2006, 08:43:48 PM...
Low self-esteem runs rampant amoung transsexuals and causes many of them to become loners and underacheivers, to take dead-end jobs, and to develop problems with health, grooming, and body language.
...

Loner, yes and happy.

Underacheiver, yes. Mostly only because the vast number of things I try to do simply do not work like I think they should

Dead-end jobs, er no.

Problems with health, No, not really. I have a difficult time forcing myself to eat but that is not a self-esteem issue as far as I am aware.

Problems with grooming, ^*shrug* My place in life is very much not what I would prefer, that has (among other things) made it difficult to get excited about grooming in general. ^*shrug* I can manage more or less.

Problems with and body language, ^*shrug* Living in a foreign social context tends to make things confusing, however all the body language I need I learned I learned from my Basset.

Quote from: Kate on July 24, 2006, 08:43:48 PM...
- Poor self-esteem because they are different from other people and have had a hard time fitting in or being accepted
...

^*chortle* I SO could not fit in I did not try. I am abby normal and proud of it.  Fitting in was not a problem because I did not try any more than was necessary to be left alone.

As for being accepted, ^*shrug* Sure I would like to be, but they do or they do not and by and large that is their deal, and not my concern.

Quote from: Kate on July 24, 2006, 08:43:48 PM...
- Poor self-esteem because it's hard for them to like or love themselves when so much of their existence is based on deception
...

^*shrug* We do (and are capable of) some pretty impressive things in the name of survival. I am not going to knock myself because I was doing the best that I could and what I thought was the best course of action at the time.

Quote from: Kate on July 24, 2006, 08:43:48 PM...
- Poor self-esteem because they have the wrong body and genitals
...

^*shrug* I would be in the gutter if something so simplistic as that messed with my self-esteem.

The wrong genitals are and have been annoying. VERY.
The wrong body? ^*snicker* More than (generic) you know.

But ok, so I'm a fruitloop and don't do things at all like normal. That is kind of, well, normal. See above about not fitting in...



^*shrug*
Just a few coppers from the peanut gallery

Quote from: Peggiann on July 23, 2006, 11:27:29 AM
This is a very good question.
Thank you for posting it Bob. Many people don't realize that this can slip from time to time depending on what they are experiencing in their day to day life. Being comfortable with yourself and happy with you are is very important and can actually have great bearing on how the outcome of certain events and the paths our live take because of our choices. Even a pro at this can slip deeply if such a powerful blow to ones life is delt and can go into deep depression from such things. It some thing that everyone needs to practice daily.

Giving one a self check up in this department on a regular basis is very important.
Thanks for the reminder.




Smiles,
Peggiann

Many responces and many answers thank you ! and I can't even remember what I said for myself ...above avrage i think  <grin>
though My life was filled with many a canyon of extreamily low self esteam, I think i have learned better through time.
But if one thing needs to be emphasized here it is what Peggiann so elegantly wrote !
and I could have never said it so well in such a few words !  there is a bunch of knowledge rolled up in those words of her's ! pay attention to them ! read them over and over again !  Hear,Hear !!!!!

Well done Peggiann !

I'm not keeping a score card here, this is just to make you think.   Thinking is good !
though too much of it will no doubt make you smart so watch out for that ! <GRIN>
its important to know though, that there is no RIGHT ansewrs here... except truth.
for some people a low self esteam is their normal and it may even rise to not too bad...
for others a high self esteam is Normal... with ocasional moments of weakness .
whats normal for you and what works for you is what is important here self esteam is not a cookie cutter,  and we don't want every one the same  ! thats not what knowing what your self esteam is , is all about ... its just a guage to help you deside if you need to change something in your life.
as Peggiann said "Giveing yourself a self checkup in this department is very important !"
and indeed it is !

<Smiles>
Bob.......

Quote- Poor self-esteem because they are different from other people and have a hard time fitting in or being accepted

I never got any semblance of acceptance from girls - ever. They refused to play with me, they would throw a hissy and move their chair if I was seated next to them, I would go out of my way to be sweet and friendly to them, but that only made it worse. They descended on me like harpies to the kill. The harder I tried to be like them, the more obvious it was that I wasn't. They somehow knew I wasn't really one of them - women's intuition, I guess.
This has continued through kindergarten to the present day - I am not accepted as a woman by other women.

Quote- Poor self-esteem because it's hard for them to like or love themselves when so much of their existence is based on deception

I realized from an early age that I would never fit in, that I stuck out; so for the most part I didn't have this constructed facade that you always hear about. I was just me. I behaved like me, except for certain people I made subconscious exceptions for - like my father.
The only deception was that I was perceived as female, and a very strange one at that.

I don't think these things had much impact on my self-esteem. I learned early on not to base my self-esteem on others' perceptions of me.

Nero

Currently, my self esteem is good.  I am living as a woman and accepted as one, so therefore I don't feel odd anymore.  Before transition it also was pretty good, but I say this is due to my wife constantly helping boost it.  I don't think I could have gone so long if that weren't the case.  In the early transition after I came out to myself, I had very low self esteem.  I knew I wasn't who I was supposed to be and I think I may have had some degree of body dysmorphic disorder and thought there was no way I would ever be passable.  Now the BDD is gone and I see myself as a woman.  I am not going to get FFS simply because I do not need it to live the way I want.

Melissa

QuoteI am not going to get FFS simply because I do not need it to live the way I want.

I'm glad to hear that, as I love your face the way it is. But would you care to explain what you mean by BDD? I don't understand, do you mean you had that concurrent with the gender dysphoria?

Nero

Quote from: Nero on July 25, 2006, 10:46:18 AM
I'm glad to hear that, as I love your face the way it is. But would you care to explain what you mean by BDD? I don't understand, do you mean you had that concurrent with the gender dysphoria?

Nero

Correct.  I meant that I saw myself as way uglier than I really was.

Melissa

Very True Milissia !
A very big portion of our population see's themselves as Uglier than they realy are
i think it is a natural thing.... i don't know why , it just is i guess.  I suppose I am not all THAT UGLY, but I love to joke about it none-the-less , i mean looking at one of the kittens we have here is amuseing to see those big wide eyes as if they were saying " OH my GOD Mom there is this big UGLY thing ...and ...and he was LOOKING AT ME !
I mean animals are very preseptive after all , so there must be something to it  ! HEHEHEH
....
  So i think its more or less normal to see yourself as less atractive than others arround you.... its nothing to worry about and its nothing to dwell upon .... take the attitude...so what !
  So yah , I'm ugly.... and ya know what ? I don't care eather !   now weather this is actually true or not i realy don't know <GRIN> thats not what my wife says !HAHAH!
.......
Milissa I agree with you I don't think you need facial reconstruction in any way. and I am Proud of you for comeing to that conclusion.
Facial Reconstruction is usually about the third thing that comes to mind for a TS MtoF
but seriously in most of the cases its not needed .
My Kid Is Planning on it as well, but I think she will find that "its not so bad after all"  in a ruggid sort of way, with a bit of time, and learning oh how to apply the makeup, I think she will pass as normal in a croud anyday !
lets face it Boys have NO frigging clue on how to apply makeup !  we couldn't even fake it if our lives depended on it ! .... Regular girls get indoctenerated from an early age
on up .... it takes years of dedicated effort ! ... it just ain't going to come real fast to ya ... trying to make yourself purdy ain't an easy task. any gal will tell ya that !
but the guys realy don't even try past shaveing and combing their hair.
so if you remember you are starting off with a few strokes against ya in the learning department ,perhaps it will help calm the fears a bit ! it will come in time !
be paitiant !
my 2 coppers
Bob.......

Quote from: Bob on July 25, 2006, 07:21:38 PM
Regular girls get indoctenerated from an early age
on up .... it takes years of dedicated effort ! ... it just ain't going to come real fast to ya

I have to disagree with the statement in bold. When it comes to makeup, I had a very good teacher - my ex.  We have similar face shapes and she was able to transfer many of the things she has learned about her face to mine and helped me initially pick out the right colors (she was working on a degree in fashion before) for me and taught me a bunch of stuff.  I also had to learn a few application techniques and the rest was just practice.  Within a month I was able to apply makeup fairly well and I had a lot of practice since then and feel that I'm just as good as any other woman at it now and perhaps better than some.  I didn't need to experiment as much as a normal female growing up is all.  I did have a few skills that also came in handy such as artistic talent.

Quote from: Bob on July 25, 2006, 07:21:38 PM
lets face it Boys have NO frigging clue on how to apply makeup !  we couldn't even fake it if our lives depended on it !

That's right.  Just keep in mind that MtFs are not boys.

Melissa (with an 'e' )

Quote from: Bob on July 25, 2006, 07:21:38 PM
Very True Milissia !
A very big portion of our population see's themselves as Uglier than they realy are
i think it is a natural thing.... i don't know why , it just is i guess.

I don't need to guess - it's not natural.  The majority of people in our culture feel uglier than they really are because of marketing: TV, Print, etc.  All those commercial messages that we are bombarded with -> Buy this - be happy, buy that - look better - be happy, buy our stuff and you'll get the girl/boy because you don't measure up otherwise, ad infinitum.

Happy and contented people do not buy as much as unhappy people with low self-esteem so our culture reinforces our deficiencies and the result is that few of us feel good about ourselves.  Then we go out and buy that stuff to feel good/look better/get the girl, get the boy .  .   .    .     .      .       .

helen

HAHA !  Ok Good point Melissa !
  but no fair you had a teacher !   but perhaps your 2nd quote covers that MtoF are not Boys ! ....  Ok good point ! i suppose it would come easier to those ! not truly boys so to speak....  i know I would have a heck of a time at it and i am a good artest and painter
but I bet i'ed realy look the fool should i ever try to put make up on !
but I'll bow to your superrior knowledge in having been there done that ! i can't say that
so I am just guessing here  ...thanks for setting me stright !
there are many many aspects about the MtoF transision that i do not understand how a person would get over them , but i am looking from a male point of view too  there are obsticals that I know i couldn't overcome ... but perhaps that is diferent with the MtoF Transexuals
i hope so .
...
hehehehe I suppose if i can learn to fiberglass a prop in a few weeks time  i could learn to put makeup on well in the same amount of time ... with hopefully fewer throw aways though ! HAHAHAH !
<grin>
just depends if you realy want to do it or not eh ?
C ya !
Bob.......

Sorry about the misspellin' Melissa with an e !  I'm lucky to spell my own name right !
<grin>

Quote from: Bob on July 27, 2006, 12:26:23 AM
Sorry about the misspellin' Melissa with an e !  I'm lucky to spell my own name right !
<grin>

No prob Bob.

Melissa

This is a topic that makes you sit & think about things, to force oneself to consider & be brutally honest.
I think, underneath everything everything my self esteem is low.  Why? well I don't feel that it is but I look at my abilities (and I am not boasting but being honest   ) and I have & have had great potential - but what part of it have I realised?
I suspect that the potential was there for Rana to use, but in real life I was not Rana was I.   Carbon is the element - but I seem to have ended up as graphite (sure has many uses    )  not diamond

Rana