So, I had never really thought about or 'felt' gender, until I started doing a lot of work in the LGBT community, and became a significant other of an FtM. I guess, because of these things, I began to notice all the emphasis that is put on gender -- and how truely important it is to some people.

That got me to thinking. I don't care about gender. I'm noticing that I have always cringed if someone called me a 'woman' 'lady' or 'girl', yet I don't see myself necessarily being happy being called anything male either. I hate when people I identify me as a 'lesbian', I prefer 'gay', because it is more all-encompassing.

I guess I am kind of struggling to find my identity in this. I feel as if I don't necessarily have one, if that is possible -- but if that is the case, then I am wholly ready to begin rejecting my outward appearance when it comes to gender stereotypes. I look typically female, without doing anything, and there isn't a whole lot of androgyny coming from me even when I clothe myself as such. I would like to present myself as pretty androgynous, it is just something that I've never done because there is a sort of 'comfort' in never really having myself questioned.

Did anybody else ever just feel this sense of...neither gender, or kind of a general apathy toward gender in general? And perhaps, an anger towards the fact that SO MUCH emphasis is put on it, especially noting the english language and its pronouns. At this point, I'm not sure if this general apathy is felt by those who have never really HAD to put emphasis on their gender, or if this is really felt by those who more identify as androgyne or genderqueer.

I'm pretty apathetic towards gender, but being in society doesn't really allow for apathy, sadly. 

I realized I'm more apathetic to /people/

Gender is just a "consequence" of people.

Because people wants to know with whom they can play with their funny bits.

So gender is a way to tell people "I want this kind of people to play with my funny bits"

But since I don't care much about sex, if at all, I just don't see what's there to say about it. I just go as bisexual because it's easier than asexual (people always feel the need to point out that if you don't have children you are a waste of human. Or something like that.)

In any case, no, I don't feel apathy towards gender. I feel *nothing* towards gender.

I do think gender is important. Sex is NOT. Gender is a personal thing and may be very important for the individual. I beleive sex and gender could be more all encompassing. Being a crossdresser I can choose which gender to appear as. I tend to be bicurious so that makes life easy also. I tend to be apathetic towards peoples personal problems. If there's a problem and they do not have a solution then they are part of the problem.

Quote from: Genevieve Swann on March 20, 2009, 06:34:57 AM
I tend to be apathetic towards peoples personal problems. If there's a problem and they do not have a solution then they are part of the problem.

That's very harsh. My wife works for a charity that deals with victims of torture and of extreme cruelty. There is no way on earth that those people were part of their problems.

In fact most of us on this site would have suffered similar situations if we had been unfortunate enough to live under the regimes they lived under.

I was referring to personal problems which many people creat by themselves. If a person is a victim it's a completely different story. Sorry if I confused anyone with my comment. Maybe a better way to say it is, I cannot change someones emotions therefore I tend to be apathetic.

Quote from: Genevieve Swann on March 20, 2009, 06:55:03 AM
I was referring to personal problems which many people creat by themselves. If a person is a victim it's a completely different story. Sorry if I confused anyone with my comment. Maybe a better way to say it is, I cannot change someones emotions therefore I tend to be apathetic.

No worries

Come on, we can all change people's emotions by making them laugh or being comforting etc, surely?

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Post Merge: March 20, 2009, 05:08:22 AM

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Quote from: Red_Rachel on March 19, 2009, 11:22:40 PM
So, I had never really thought about or 'felt' gender, until I started doing a lot of work in the LGBT community, and became a significant other of an FtM. I guess, because of these things, I began to notice all the emphasis that is put on gender -- and how truely important it is to some people.

That got me to thinking. I don't care about gender. I'm noticing that I have always cringed if someone called me a 'woman' 'lady' or 'girl', yet I don't see myself necessarily being happy being called anything male either. I hate when people I identify me as a 'lesbian', I prefer 'gay', because it is more all-encompassing.

I guess I am kind of struggling to find my identity in this. I feel as if I don't necessarily have one, if that is possible -- but if that is the case, then I am wholly ready to begin rejecting my outward appearance when it comes to gender stereotypes. I look typically female, without doing anything, and there isn't a whole lot of androgyny coming from me even when I clothe myself as such. I would like to present myself as pretty androgynous, it is just something that I've never done because there is a sort of 'comfort' in never really having myself questioned.

Did anybody else ever just feel this sense of...neither gender, or kind of a general apathy toward gender in general? And perhaps, an anger towards the fact that SO MUCH emphasis is put on it, especially noting the english language and its pronouns. At this point, I'm not sure if this general apathy is felt by those who have never really HAD to put emphasis on their gender, or if this is really felt by those who more identify as androgyne or genderqueer.

Nothing wrong with presenting androgynous, it's what I always do myself and what I feel most comfortable with.

Many genetic females like that look as well, there is no correct way to look. My own wife is very feminine and pretty with long curly hair but always dresses in a feminine butch style. Personally I think it's a great look and one that fits her personality.

As regards pronouns etc English is fairly forgiving. I speak Italian and Indonesian (Bahasa Indonesia).... Italian is worse than English in that not only the pronoun but also adjectives and past participles change... (He/She has gone = Lui/Lei è andato/andata)... Indonesian on the other hand is the opposite... (He/She drinks coffee = Dia minum kopi) There are no conventional tenses in Indonesian either so time indicators are used instead which obviate the verb difficulties around gender created in Italian.

However whatever the language and existance of gendered or otherwise terms society and it's norms are pretty much the same world wide. Count yourself lucky you don't have to transition speaking Italian!

If there are two groups at a party (as often occurs at parties I go to), and one group is discussing stocks and sports and the other, cooking and children (kuchen und kinder) I will be found with the latter group. I want people ignore my gender, to treat me as a person, an equal. A female friend once asked my wife to stop bringing me to their parties because I didn't play nicely with her husband and his friends.

If the group is discussing religion or social justice, genders tend to be mixed, and, I would hope, people treat one another equally. That was the case last night at our house when 2 male-presenting and 4 female-presenting persons gathered to discuss the book Persepolis.

I have never been attracted to a male-bodied person, nor has one mentioned being attracted to me. Being attracted to someone targeted by male-directed advertising is way beyond my imagination.

Shows revolving around horror or violence repel me. I go for romantic comedies. Still, I am more likely to watch a World War II movie than my wife (maybe because I was a toddler then, and have a certain curiosity to what happened).

Not a cross-dresser nor politically invested in sex/gender issues, I try to dress in what appeals to me without making my clothing an issue. People do notice my long pony tail. I love my hair and wish I had let it grew when it was a prettier color (and that I knew more about hair and skin care). Pronouns don't bother me as long as they don't interfere with human interaction.

Finally, even with my wife, I am happiest when we relate as best friends and partners, ignoring gender to the extent possible.

Glad to have you in our forest, Rachel,
S

i am apathetic to many things including gender but not including friendship.

I'm apathetic to lots of things... but gender especially.

I think there is too much emphasis on having to pick one or the other.

I'm not apathetic about gender.  I'm very passionate about it, in fact.  I have a very clear sense of what I am:  third-gendered.  I understand that there are lots of other points on the gender map besides mine, and that it can be a lot harder to live in some of them than in others.  This doesn't mean positioning myself against one gender or for another; you can love and appreciate people from any gender, whilst still acknowledging that some are more likely to suffer oppression than others.  It also doesn't mean policing gender, insisting on forcibly shoving individuals in arbitrary boxes.  Gender is a human rghts issue; I find it impossible to be apathetic about gender as long as people are getting killed over it. 

I would cite some apathy on my part.  Although I do feel I have a gender (male), the feeling of not being female is much stronger, and without this repulsion to my assigned gender I would probably be too lazy to transition just now.
There's also definately the assumptions thing.  Although I will be gladly be transitioning out of some inapplicable stereotypes (high interest in dating, ditzyness), presenting as male will bring new incorrect assumptions about me, maybe even more than I face in the female role.

I think I'm relatively apathetic towards gender. If I wasn't, I'd probably identify more as a transwoman than as an androgyne. But alas, I'm just not willing to jump through all the flaming hoops that are required to prove myself a proper woman--trans or otherwise.

On the other hand, I'm also totally unwilling to man up and play the hand that my biology dealt me either. Meh. Yeah, I'm apathetic towards gender. Either that, or I'm just plain sick of it.

I'm sick of gender too. 

I'm also really tired of gender, and of all the automatic assumptions attached to it by many people.

Z

I'm just sick of thinking about it.

Let's ban gender talk from the unicorn forest.   We'll never think about it again. 

seriously, we need an island...

Quote from: Jaimey on March 23, 2009, 01:45:47 AM
Let's ban gender talk from the unicorn forest.   We'll never think about it again. 

seriously, we need an island...

Surrounded by water? 

Quote from: Jaimey on March 23, 2009, 01:45:47 AM
Let's ban gender talk from the unicorn forest.   We'll never think about it again. 

seriously, we need an island...

Isn't that what brings us all here somewhere to talk about being differently gendered

I like gender, everyone should have a few.  You never know what you're going to need.