I can see how he ruffles peoples feathers, but utilizing what you already have does not make you less transsexual. It implies that you would rather endure your dysphoria for a greater gift, and I don't think that has anything to do with being any less trans. MtFs masturbate with their penises. Why does it matter and how does that make them less trans? I mean... I would obviously very much prefer the proper anatomy but if its there, then whatever. Futanariness... ? But yeah.

The same goes for being pregnant. If you can't give semen, why not give an egg and be the carrier. You still get a baby, the eventual result. The road is just a little different.

What I hate about the pregnant man is that he actually goes on these dumb horrible shows.

Quote from: Kara-Xen on February 06, 2009, 05:20:00 PM


What I hate about the pregnant man is that he actually goes on these dumb horrible shows.

Agreed. He's making a spectacle of himself and his family.

Quote from: Alicia Marie on February 06, 2009, 08:21:02 AM
From a straight point of view, or from the outside looking in, it would seem that having a baby would be the last thing that a FtM would want.
To be honest it seems as though it would give the judgmental straight people more ammunition for their thoughts and hatred. Sort of like "If she really thinks she's a guy why would she want to have a child like a woman?"
I hope I didn't offend anyone but she sure may have given some additional ammo in their fight against transsexuals being acknowledged as having GID and not just demon possessed or nuts.
Alicia

Speaking from the straight point of view from conversations had with all variety of other straight people, the folks who dismiss a FTM person's giving birth to a child are the same ones who find all sorts of excuses not to accept other people's identities.  *shrug*

Personally, I have no problem with men having babies.  Males carry babies in lots of other species, I don't know why ours should have such trouble accepting we can too.  We like to attribute so much to science, but it seems like only when it's convenient (which in this case it doesn't seem to be, cuz that fact gets ignored a lot).

Quote from: whatsername on February 07, 2009, 03:52:09 AM

Quote from: Alicia Marie on February 06, 2009, 08:21:02 AM
From a straight point of view, or from the outside looking in, it would seem that having a baby would be the last thing that a FtM would want.
To be honest it seems as though it would give the judgmental straight people more ammunition for their thoughts and hatred. Sort of like "If she really thinks she's a guy why would she want to have a child like a woman?"
I hope I didn't offend anyone but she sure may have given some additional ammo in their fight against transsexuals being acknowledged as having GID and not just demon possessed or nuts.
Alicia

Speaking from the straight point of view from conversations had with all variety of other straight people, the folks who dismiss a FTM person's giving birth to a child are the same ones who find all sorts of excuses not to accept other people's identities.  *shrug*

Personally, I have no problem with men having babies.  Males carry babies in lots of other species, I don't know why ours should have such trouble accepting we can too.  We like to attribute so much to science, but it seems like only when it's convenient (which in this case it doesn't seem to be, cuz that fact gets ignored a lot).

Males carry children in other species?  Name two.

Seahorses and multiple species of Pipefish (just to name two).

And those are ones which are Biologically classified as male (the gender that produces smaller gametes) that's not even accounting for animals whose sex don't correspond to their gender, or animals, like many species of birds (penguins are well known for this), where the female lays the egg but the male is responsible for hatching it (the bird equivalency to pregnancy, I'd say), or other species who are classified as intersex (like hyenas, who all, both genders, both sexes, have a penis), or species where the female may give birth but the amount of time and energy put into the babies by males is a total sex-role reversal.

The natural world is a pretty diverse (and interesting) place.

Quote from: Alicia Marie on February 06, 2009, 08:21:02 AM
From a straight point of view, or from the outside looking in, it would seem that having a baby would be the last thing that a FtM would want.

You are right on that level.

Quote from: Alicia Marie on February 06, 2009, 08:21:02 AM
"If she really thinks she's a guy why would she want to have a child like a woman?"
I hope I didn't offend anyone but she sure may have given some additional ammo in their fight against transsexuals being acknowledged as having GID and not just demon possessed or nuts.

I'm not 100 percent offended, but for those who have been offended, Alicia Marie is truly sorry.


As I have sated in my "MtF Pregnancy" post--as long as...

Quote from: Ava Nieves on February 05, 2009, 08:20:29 PM

• you have to have a uterus and take anti-rejection medication.
• you'd have to undergo a C-section.
• I wouldn't be surprised if that happens within the next 20 years.

Quote from: whatsername on February 07, 2009, 03:52:09 AM
Males carry babies in lots of other species, I don't know why ours should have such trouble accepting we can too.  We like to attribute so much to science, but it seems like only when it's convenient (which in this case it doesn't seem to be, cuz that fact gets ignored a lot).

From Wikipedia...

Assuming the donor uterus is from an F2M, and the receiver is an M2F.

Quote
For male-to-female transsexuals medical advances in the near future may one day make childbearing possible by using a donor uterus long enough to carry a child to term as anti-rejection drugs do not seem to affect the fetus.

The DNA in a donated ovum can be removed and replaced with the DNA of the receiver. Further in the future stem cell biotechnology may also make this possible, with no need for anti-rejection drugs.

But we're talking about Thomas Beatie, and let's keep it that way.

When i read of this "man" in the news, I had one thing going through my head:
"Why?"

If that person - in the days of being female would have born the baby - then underwent the transition --- I thought, that would've been way more logic.
Why after? What could be a reason for that. Then I read "Hes pregnant again" and i it came to my mind -- that person wants to be a sensation.
"Being trans aint special enought, hey, look at me, people, im birthing babies, im a man but i give birth."
He should have decided to give birth to dinosaur DNA eggs. Then, the freak show would be complete. Later, the children will be pointed at like "The sensation" and by youngers by "The freaks!" My personal opinion about this is - if you become a man, you will not give birth. If there are special reasons why you would want to use your womb since you have it, you will make this a discrete decision and not available to a wide public. And you will think "Well nature did some mistakes on me, so also the way i reproduced wasnt all that common. Least thing you will do is to say "Look, nature did mistakes on me that i corrected, and then i also gave birht, basically i do whatever I want, beyond natures rules, im a star, im almost godlike, damn, im cool." No, not cool at all. Just very...very...strange.
Because, wether this becomes a trend, or not, this will never be normality, like all women will transition and all men will have babies in the future, changing the "breeding habits" of an entire race, no, this will always stand out as an exception that many people will question WHY, even if seahorse-males carry babies And personally when i say im trans i think "hopefully they don't relate me to freak stuff now... " and then exactly that guy comes to my mind.

On his side - he doesnt have semen, but has the egg - alright. BUt not the way he exploits it. THats totally reflecting a wrong image on other trans' people. Beginning with that we would not want to be in the spotlight but just live a normal life. Ending with, that performing the functions of the gender that you just could not live as -- is strange -- how wrong was he in that body then?

I don't know much about the situation, but I don't see how having one baby vs two babies vs 14 babies (to pick a random number ) has any bearing on anything.  I don't think his being pregnant matters at all, the only thing that matters is how the person's actions in relation to public media affect the general viewpoint of the public on trans people.

So I think it's best to keep the discussion to whether or not the person is doing a service or disservice through their interactions with media -- his choice to have babies or not is 100% his alone and we have NO business saying whether that's 'right' or 'not right'.

edit: according to wikipedia, hyenas are not exactly intersex, females don't have an actual penis but an enlarged clitoris and the vagina still functions as a vagina.  I was interested to learn that they are super intelligent on the level of primate intelligence.

A disservice then, definatly.

If this was not exploited he could give birth to F16 aircrafts, i would not mind.
But this is yet giving the public the impression "fools and freaks".
My parents have this opinion about the transsexuals. Which - unfortunately - i am one of, so he doesnt serve me a favor by birthing babies going through the news.

Quote from: Nero on February 06, 2009, 11:26:08 AM
The thing is, we ftms have wombs.

Way to brag.

Quote from: Nero on February 06, 2009, 11:26:08 AM
The thing is, we ftms have wombs. Whether we utilize them or not.

Again with the bragging about the wombs.

Nicole said it best so far, and I agree with her. Thomas Beatie isn't doing trans people a disservice, far from it, I seriously doubt anyone is going to go to from being supportive of trans rights to hating trans people because of him, or cause it to take someone's hatred of trans people from a 10 to an 11. Anyone who looks at trans people as "fools and freaks" felt that way before hearing about Beatie. If anything, the visibility of a trans person wanting to have the standard American family helps us. The publicity about him hasn't been anywhere near as negative as it has for been Nadya Suleman, the octomom.

Quote from: ilikepotatoes on April 25, 2009, 11:29:08 PM
Way to brag.

Again with the bragging about the wombs.

lol 

If you say that Thomas's family isn't normal after all, then From the ultimate aspect, we are all the same.
And if he is different, then I 'll be proud to say me too.
PLS we are all one big family. So why don't we unite

If I were him I wouldn't have gone so public with it. If this happened to me and some reporter came a knockin' on my door, I would be like 'Um, go away.' And if more came I'd call the police. Maybe that's just me, though.
I can understand his desire to have a child and a normal family with his wife. At least he's a responsible human being about it, unlike "Octomom".

Quote from: Yochanan on February 06, 2009, 06:04:09 PM
Agreed. He's making a spectacle of himself and his family.

Name recognition is a form of financial security, and "there is no such thing as bad publicity."

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Post Merge: June 29, 2009, 03:41:44 PM

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Quote from: Khrist on June 21, 2009, 07:45:17 PMAt least he's a responsible human being about it, unlike "Octomom".

Which is why, if he published a book, I would consider buying it. If it were interesting, I would be happy to make a contribution to his light bill or his children's college fund.

I would not touch anything associated with "Octomom."

I thought I'd point out that if you believe a FTM having a baby is against God...

I'd like to ask just WHO you think MAKES BABIES? Because that is just very... unintelligent and judgemental to say.

I happen to be openly transgender, and a pastor. Whether someone believes something or not, only the truth should be spoken. The truth does not hurt. The truth sets you free. If someone tells you "the truth," and it hurts you or others?

Common sense says what that means.

As for against God? Explain to intersex folks who have fully-functional penises and can babies. It's happened.

I just can't see the logic at all in what you said. God shouldn't be mentioned if something's not about God, but about someone's bigotry. S'all I'm sayin'. Completely transparent.

Are FTMs against this 'God' of yours?  Or just the concept of transitioning?

Back to babies, are women who conceive through IVF against 'God'? 

Quote from: Birdie on February 05, 2009, 10:19:48 PM
Pregnant Man makes me happy!

He gives me hope that my dream of having kids isn't just another bird-brained idea.

Pregnant Man is my hero! 

yes! I Agree. He really opened the door to possibilities

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Post Merge: July 16, 2009, 06:44:27 PM

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Quote from: Mister on July 07, 2009, 09:29:58 PM
Are FTMs against this 'God' of yours?  Or just the concept of transitioning?

Back to babies, are women who conceive through IVF against 'God'?

I actually don't think so because some women are able to conceive for whatever reason and therefore find that method the easiest.