Quote from: Sarah LouiseEach side has their own stories, both of success and failure.  I guess you just have to decide for yourself which works best for you.

Yes, because the problem with many people is that what ever works best for them becomes the best period, and they and will swear forever by it. Either not aware, or unwilling to accept that for some others just opposite is true, and another system is best for them. Favoritism over what clinical evidence (though not in abundance) that exists.

What you say is true to a certain extent Sandi.  But I've always felt that the laser side of the story is pushing way too hard and offering results that they just can't substantiate.  I went for a laser consult and luckily the tech was honest and up front about the whole thing.  She examined my face, colour and coarseness, and she told me that I would not be a good candidate, further to that she admitted that she couldn't guarantee permanent removal.  Since then I will always recommend her to anyone considering Laser as she seems to be the most honest I've met.

Steph

Quote from: Stephanie CraxfordWhat you say is true to a certain extent Sandi.  But I've always felt that the laser side of the story is pushing way too hard and offering results that they just can't substantiate.  I went for a laser consult and luckily the tech was honest and up front about the whole thing.  She examined my face, colour and coarseness, and she told me that I would not be a good candidate, further to that she admitted that she couldn't guarantee permanent removal.  Since then I will always recommend her to anyone considering Laser as she seems to be the most honest I've met.

Well the lady that did mine was pretty honest too, but with her recomendation (and a free session of each) I tried both. She told me that quite often neither is permanent and thus no matter which you use, there is often the need for a periodic maintenance treatment.

My face was about 40 percent dark and the rest gray, and I had both laser and electrolysis done about 4 or 5 years ago. After 5 laser treatments no dark hair has ever come back to this day. Does that mean laser is better? No, it means it worked well for me. The next person it may not work well at all. Even for darker hair than mine.

She removed about three quarters of the other 60 percent that was gray back then also. I ran into financial difficulties, had to stop, and have had no more treatments to date. I would estimate that a good half of the gray that she did with electro (blend electro) did come back although finer. Does that mean to me that electro isn't as good? No, it means it doesn't work as well for me. For many others electro works the best with little or no maintenance.

But your make my earlier point by promoting what worked best for you. As far as your consultant not guaranteeing laser, she is prevented from doing so by the FDA. She may not do so anyway, but it is a moot point.

Nor am I pushing either laser or electrolysis as I believe it is dependant on the individual. So if anyone is seeking treatment, unless you have light hair, do yourself a favor and try both. See for yourself what works best for you. Most will give your a discount session to try either one. That way you don't have to take anyones word here, or the word of the technician that does the work.

Very interesting comment Sarah Louise, but yes, you are absolutely right that there will always be a debate between laser or electrolysis for years to come and it all simply boils down to which is best for the individual. In a few days I'll be meeting with my doctor and I will have a very good conversation with him going over everything with him, and then I'll be able to make a better decision.

Gina 


Posted at: February 28, 2006, 04:21:48 PM

---

Today I saw the doctor that would be handling the Laser Hair Removal, and he told me that it would cost $2000.00 for my face, $2500.00 for my back and $2500.00 for my chest and that's all for six sessions. He told me that it'll have to be continuos, for it to be permenant. If I spread out the sessions, it gives the hair too much of a chance to grow back. But he also told me that because of the type of work that I do, he may end up burning my skin because of the tan on my face, so I may have to invest in a sunblock and heavy shirts if I decided to go this way.

Gina   

I'm fortunate to live in easy reach of a laser clinic that offers some really good prices. Glad to hear about the alexandrite! Because that's what they're using on me. Anyway, their policy is after 6 treatments, if more treatments are required they're half off.

I've just had my second treatment a week and a half ago. So far the results are great - only time I ever shave anymore is if the old hairs that push out start to get in the way of passing. Whether or not it lasts in the long term, there's no way I could afford the cost of electrolysis, not to mention putting up with the pain, and the impatience of having it take so long.

Quote from: Gracie on March 10, 2006, 08:32:32 PM
The FDA just approved the LightSheer and CoolGlide systesm in 2003 for permanent hair "reduction".  :: biting my tongue ::

So is the LightSheer a "good" type of laser? I'm about to buy a package of 4 sessions using one.

Sorry Gracie.

Been there, done that, got the Tee Shirt.  Even their FAQ and disclaimer says it all:

From the FAQ -

QuoteLasertrolysis consists of several laser systems to perform quick and long
lasting hair removal.

Notice it says long lasting and not permanent.

and this is backed up by their disclaimer.  Which states: 

QuoteThis website contains doctors addresses and web pages which should be considered doctor advertisements. The information contained in this web site is educational only and should not be construed as offering medical advice.

Steph

Quote from: Gracie on March 10, 2006, 09:58:51 PM
Also please :: begging :: remember what I said about your laser person being experienced.  Make sure you ask how long they've been doing it and ask them about their experience with hair removal in general.  You don't want anyone burning your face.  It's not likely, but you know what?  It's not worth the risk.

Thanks for the great advice Gracie!

The operator is a medical doctor, and he's been using lasers for 6 years - though not sure how long he's had the LightSheer.

He claims the only seriously bad reaction he's seen was when he burned a puerto rican woman's arms to the point of blistering. He says she had tanned since the last session and lied to him about it during the usual routine questions, he didn't notice it, and she ended up burning - though it apparently healed fine.

He also said I should be prepared for "patchiness" after the first few sessions, where for whatever reason the whiskers will come back in clumps.

He claims that the LightSheer laser WILL kill the hairs, but it's only a certain percentage killed each time, and to expect about 80% of the hairs to be permanently gone after 6-8 sessions. Could be more, but no promises.

I've corresponded with a half-dozen or so people who have used laser, including a non-TS male who just hated shaving. All of them report that the hairs which were killed never came back, even after 4-5 years. The biggest variable seems to be the number of treatments, though most report 10-20 is usually needed to get nearly everything.

The people I've seen around the net who swear it's a waste of money usually have blonde hair, or mention how they only went for 1-3 sessions before giving up.

The bottom line seems to be it CAN work, but there are many more variables involved than with electrolysis. You need a good laser, a skilled operator, light skin (usually), dark hair, and many sessions.

Quote from: Gracie on March 10, 2006, 11:10:39 PM
I think I said this last time to you too.  I apologize if what I've said has offended anyone.  This issue does get my blood pressure going because I feel like I'm being called a fool because of what I believe and now what I've experienced.  That's not easy to stomach.  Nevertheless that does not give me license to be disrespectful and I hope that I haven't been to anyone who has had electrolysis.

Gracie

There is absolutely nothing wrong with being passionate about something that you believe in Gracie, and I can assure you that you have in no way offended anyone, and I would be very surprised if anyone thought you were a fool.  You have stated your views and experiences for the benefit of those here at Susan's, and that is what Susan's is all about.  We are all adults here and you have stated your views in a most respectful way just as others have done in this topic.

Keep doing what you are doing hon, there will always be pro's and cons, fores and against, one side and the other side, the point is that at Susan's we are free to choose, and choose we do.  I don't think that there is anyone here who would profess to be the last word on any topic available, but we all have our experiences, background and knowledge to  share and the more of that we get the better we are.

You were NOT disrespectful, OK

Steph

Quote from: Gracie on March 10, 2006, 08:32:32 PM
I lost you Melissa.  I didn't get here soon enough.   

Melissa I think if you have dark hair you should find a laser technician who does both electrolysis and laser.  That's what I have.  I started in July of 2003 and had my last productive session where the laser could still zap hairs at the end of 2005.   I had two white hairs removed with electrolysis. Two.

You didn't lose me.  I actually have not had a chance to go back to electrolysis since I wrote that post.  I am actually still planning on going with laser anyways.  I needed to go for about 6 weeks without electrolysis anyway before I can have laser, so as soon as I can get some money (withing the next month or 2), I'll go and pay for a package with unlimited treatments.  There are a few laser places in the area, so I will check out the other ones as well.  I will also go and ask some more questions to the place that I had a consultation appointment at.  I am glad you mentioned a couple of laser systems that are known to be effective.  I will ask what each of these places have.

Thanks,
Melissa

Interesting thread.

Has anybody done a cost/benefit analysis of using both laser and electro -- Laser clears big areas of 'old growth', and the electro zaps the sprouts as they reappear.

I noticed during my most recent session that old-growth neck hairs were taking a LONG time (15+ seconds, 8/55 setting) while new growth gave up in 3 or 4 seconds at a lower, more 'comfortable' setting...

Haz

Last Friday I was talking with a girlfriend at The Bottom Line nightclub about Laser hair removal and electrolysis. She had told me that she had had two sessions with Laser hair removal, but because she's a natural blonde, it did nothing for her. So she's been doing electrolysis for five years. She hasn't had to shave for two years. She complimented me on how smooth my face looked and I guess she didn't notice the five o'clock shadow either. I told her that I shave twice and the type of foundation that I use, which really covers up my five o'clock shadow nicely. I really appreciated the compliment and I thought that maybe I won't have to go through with somethings in my journey. Since I'm now living on my own, it's allowing me to be myself alot more. 

Gina 

I understand how difficult it is to go for treatments and have an area cleared, yet the hairs seem to return.  Those "returning" hairs are actually new untreated hairs.   To prove this you should bring a 10 power magnification mirror with you at your next treatment. You will then be able to see for yourself that when you leave it may appear that all the hairs are gone, yet there are tiny hairs waiting to mature over the next week or so.  This process goes on for months.  There is no way to speed it up. All of the hairs are not mature and ready to be killed at the same time. 

If after 4 to 8 months you do not see any reduction in hair growth, then you should change electrologists.  Just remember: It's like losing weight, it takes awhile to reach our goal.

I hope this helps.
Lisa 

I think the tendency is for people to promote whatever form of hair removal has been successful for them, and denigrate the other.

Both are capable of good permanent results, when the operator is skilled and the latest equipment is used. The reason laser claims 'permanent reduction' rather than 'permanent removal' is that after a single session, there will always be regrowth of some of the area treated. This is true of electrolysis as well; the problem is that both are only capable of killing follicles that are in the growth stage at the time of treatment. The difference is that elecrolysis treats each individual hair, so it can claim permanent removal after one session of that individual hair. Obviously, any hair that is visible to the operator is in the growth stage.

Laser treats areas rather than individual hairs, and as only about a third of the hairs in a given area are growing at one time, a minimum of three treatments are required to permanently clear an area. This is if it is done with perfect timing and the subject is an ideal candidate (light skin and dark hair).

My plan is to clear as much as I can with laser, then switch to electro for any light or particularly stubborn hairs. Everyone I know that has gone this route (with a good operator!) is very happy with the results, even 3 and 4 years out.

Annie

I'll be trying laser on my neck area next weekend.  My plan is to use it to knock back as much of the 'old growth' as possible, and then let Lisa play whack-a-mole with the sprouts that come up after, while they're still tender and only take about 6 seconds at a lower setting to kill.

Might as well add here I learned the hard way that taking an antihistamine BEFORE the session makes the session a LOT worse.  I've already got a few strikes against me -- Spiro is a diuretic and dries you up, and the topical anesthetic is a vasoconstrictor which dries the skin up (otherwise the anesthetic would be leached out of the skin.)  Adding the antihistamine dried me up so much that I wasn't bubbling up, and some neck hairs took a minute and a half to give up and die...  You've been warned!

Karen

Personally I chose electrolysis.  It takes time, money and lots of tears, but it is worth it!!!!  HAIR DOES NOT COME BACK!!!!!

Personally I like laser.  I have had people say they did not realize I wasn't GG, because I have such smooth skin (no needle digging in every square inch). I've only had 1 treatment so far too.  I have my next one in less than 2 weeks.  I'm not going to get into the whole laser vs. electrolysis debate though.  Most of the arguments used against laser are about "old school" laser.  FYI, I have been being treated with the lightsheer diode laser.

Melissa

Based on the results of several friends I have to say electrolysis is the only way to go. One friend had the full laser treatment at a cost of $1200. I stopped by her house one day and she hadn't shaven for a couple of days. I saw no difference between the before and after laser treatments. Another friend had the same treatment at the same place and is now having electrolysis. She found a highly skilled electrologist and so far she is quite pleased.

As for me laser wouldn't be an option even if it was permanent as most of my hairs are now white.

Quote from: tinkerbell on July 29, 2006, 10:05:58 AM
I can see why some girls prefer laser; you see instant results, the treatments are not so painful...

Take a huge rubber band, stretch it back as far as you can, and thwack it against your face a few hundred times. Now set your face on fire afterwards... and let it burn for a few hours. Repeat once per month.

And let's not forget the nasty-looking, red-spotted, polka-dot face for a few days/week.

Quoteyou don't have to deal with the EMLA cream on your face one hour prior to treatments

My doc prescribed me EMLA. I use it, though it still hurts like heck. It's odd... I can't feel my face when touching it (after EMLA), but I sure feel the laser hits.

QuoteIt ISN'T permanent and hair COMES BACK!!

All the hairs on my neck and cheeks fell out after my first session six months ago, and I haven't seen them since. The mustache and chin have  been very sparse since then, but still have some small patches of growth between the monthly sessions (though less and less each time). This is after only four of the recommended six sessions (most TSs will tell you it takes more than six).

It's difficult to say whether the mustache/chin areas are "growing back," or if it's just previously dormant hairs waking up between sessions. It's normal and expected that dormant hairs will wake up and sprout between sessions, which is why it takes many sessions spread over time to eliminate everything. It's also why both my doc and I are shocked that 90% of my face was cleared after that first session - and has stayed that way ever since. It's only around the chin that I've had ANY significant growth for the last six months.

I'm not complaining


Posted at: July 29, 2006, 12:18:12 PM

---

Quote from: tinkerbell on July 29, 2006, 10:05:58 AM
I can see why some girls prefer laser...

Other things to consider:

- There's no danger of "pitting" scars from laser as there is with electro (though there's a very small chance of being burned). IMHO, laser is less likely to leave permanent scars or damage, and isn't as dependent on operator "skill" to avoid damamge (though obviously cranking the thing up to "KILL" settings isn't smart)

- It's possible that laser can rejuvinate the skin somewhat (perhaps encouraging collogin production)

- Laser carries no risk of infection (such as hepatitis) from needles

Quote from: Kate on July 29, 2006, 11:37:56 AM...
- Laser carries no risk of infection (such as hepatitis) from needles

As far as I know the Electro tech should be using disposables, an as was described to me, BETTER BE.

(Hint, Lisa (CPE) this is your cue... )