Inertia,

If I am speaking or posting inappropriately please let me know. Since i'm new here i'm afraid of making too many mistakes in protocol.

I respect your desire to cope with your GID condition rather than transition. I really do.
I have coped for many years now myself. At least in making this decision you have the fore knowledge of who you are and have the internet for support and information which I didn't have. 

But I wonder if you really comprehend what that means for you 20, 30, 40, even 50 years from now. Have you ever heard of the Chinese water torture? It's just a harmless drop of water on the forehead. Drip, drip, drip, big deal, but with time it becomes loader,  annoying, irritating, maddening, it wont stop, and is said to drive people to the brink of insanity.  That's what may be there waiting for you. Because it's always going to be there, in the back of you thoughts, it's always there and it's getting loader. 

I told myself the same thing. In my case I can't abandon my family so I'm going to cope its not that bad. Ill keep busy, distract my mind. The kids helped a lot, soccer games, dance, school activities, vacations, but at some point it all catches up. Its loader than ever and you are still (in regards to gender issues) where you were 20, 30 years ago.  Everyone has gone forward with their lives and you're still coping.   It's never going to go away. Being transsexual is about "being" not about "knowing and accepting".  It helps but it's not the same.

In my humble opinion coping is another form of fooling oneself or being in denial. With respect you don't want to be the one that shows what the long term effects of non-transitioning are. They are already there they are the folks like me. Unhappy, half crazy people, with one foot on a banana peel and the other in a grave.   

Please think carefully about having a live of fulfillment and a life of coping. It's not the same. I don't want you to end up here.

Jill

Quote from: jilledwards on April 09, 2009, 03:23:49 PM
Inertia,

If I am speaking or posting inappropriately please let me know. Since i'm new here i'm afraid of making too many mistakes in protocol.

I respect your desire to cope with your GID condition rather than transition. I really do.
I have coped for many years now myself. At least in making this decision you have the fore knowledge of who you are and have the internet for support and information which I didn't have. 

But I wonder if you really comprehend what that means for you 20, 30, 40, even 50 years from now. Have you ever heard of the Chinese water torture? It's just a harmless drop of water on the forehead. Drip, drip, drip, big deal, but with time it becomes loader,  annoying, irritating, maddening, it wont stop, and is said to drive people to the brink of insanity.  That's what may be there waiting for you. Because it's always going to be there, in the back of you thoughts, it's always there and it's getting loader. 

I told myself the same thing. In my case I can't abandon my family so I'm going to cope its not that bad. Ill keep busy, distract my mind. The kids helped a lot, soccer games, dance, school activities, vacations, but at some point it all catches up. Its loader than ever and you are still (in regards to gender issues) where you were 20, 30 years ago.  Everyone has gone forward with their lives and you're still coping.   It's never going to go away. Being transsexual is about "being" not about "knowing and accepting".  It helps but it's not the same.

In my humble opinion coping is another form of fooling oneself or being in denial. With respect you don't want to be the one that shows what the long term effects of non-transitioning are. They are already there they are the folks like me. Unhappy, half crazy people, with one foot on a banana peel and the other in a grave.   

Please think carefully about having a live of fulfillment and a life of coping. It's not the same. I don't want you to end up here.

Jill

I accept your position with complete humility.  I cannot know what it is like to be you, to have spent so long without transitioning, to feel the pain you must feel.  I cannot say that I am the exception, or that I will succeed where you have not.  I have no evidence there is a fix for this, or that I will find it.

Still, I cannot help but recall stephb's story, a 60-something yo TS who has lived without transition and intends to forever out of respect for his wife and child.  You can read it here https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,55483.msg346622.html#msg346622

I respect that you are trying to keep me from making a mistake, from causing any additional harm to myself in pursuit of a fruitless effort.  I must however, respectfully decline your advice.  Even if I don't make it, I will supply valuable information to the next generation, information that they can build upon, until ultimately a way is found.  The question becomes, do we believe there exists in some capacity the ability to live without transitioning, and if we believe the possibility exists, it is worth the effort discovering it?  I do believe that a way exists, and that it is worth my life in pursuit of it.  Even if I fail, others will succeed eventually, and an answer will be reached in time.

Not every scientist lives to see the results of his research, thankfully there are others willing to take it up in his stead.

Hi Interalia, again I say if you can do this without suffering utter misery when you are at your rope's end, hun you have more b..ls then anyone I ever met before in my life.

Did you know hun that there was once upon a time where I actually tempted fate, I looked that son of a bitch eyeball to eyeball and dared him. You know why? Because by this time I had nothing to lose.

There is nothing more dangerous to one and anyone around them then one who has become desperate enough to say they have nothing to lose. But this could also prove to be this person's only salvation from their own self manifested Hell. 

Cindy

Interalia,

Quote from: heatherrose on April 10, 2009, 01:30:39 AM
Interalia,

Doll, how did you come by your user name.
Curious I did a limited Google search and come up with,
the Latin; inter alia, meaning; among other things.
I also found it to be the name of businesses that deal in
delivering messages or the equipment used to do so.
Hmmmm....Among other things are you a messenger?
What message are you trying to deliver?
Who gave it to you to deliver and to who?

Interesting, I thought "Interalia" corresponded to the modern Italian "Fra Altri" meaning "among others".... This could theoretically mean either things or people.

I presume the message could be connected to hir religious beliefs.

Better not be as I'm intent on converting the lot of you to Islam and don't want no competition! (joke)

Hehe!

Quote from: interalia on April 09, 2009, 06:13:41 PM
I do believe that a way exists, and that it is worth my life in pursuit of it.

This might very well be true, but the change needs not come from transpeople, but society in general.

Early in transition, I spoke with my minister and explained what was going on with me.  It turned out, one of her colleagues was actively looking into scripture regarding transpeople.  One of the points he focused on was the Story of Adam and Eve the Garden of Eden.  The Garden was, in essence, paradise, a perfect world, until the forbidden fruit was eaten.  Adam and Eve had no concept of gender or their biological differences.

Whether you view the story as fact or metaphor, that point has amazing implications.  Imagine a world where how we appear and act in terms of gender are irrelevant.  In those cases transpeople would not need to change, but could simply be.  "Transition" would be irrelevant.

For most people, the need to transition arises out of the feeling of placing a square peg into a round hole.  The strict rules of society regarding gender make it difficult for us to fit in as we are.  For now our efforts are focused on smooth the edges of our pegs until we fit where we belong.  But slowly there is work being done to change the shape of the holes.  It is possible, that somewhere down the line, future generations will be able to make this change.  But for now, we are in the world as it is, and must cope accordingly.

Iran and Transexuals...

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/the-ayatollah-and-the-transsexual-534482.html

Quote from: heatherrose on April 10, 2009, 01:30:39 AM
Interalia,

Doll, how did you come by your user name.
Curious, I did a limited Google search and come up with,
the Latin; inter alia, meaning; among other things.
I also found it to be the name of businesses that deal in
delivering messages or the equipment used to do so.
Hmmmm....Among other things are you a messenger?
What message are you trying to deliver?
Who gave it to you to deliver and to who?

Actually, my name means just that.  Inter alia - "among others".  I am just one among many others in many different things.  Whether is be as a TS, or someone who struggles with GID, to someone who loves board games, to someone who loves mashed potatoes.  I am just one among you.  The name to me demonstrates to others and reminds me that I am no different than anyone else; I am just a human, just as you are, no better or worse, and you deserve all the respect and justice that I would afford myself.

---

Post Merge: April 10, 2009, 11:10:00 AM

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Quote from: pheonix on April 10, 2009, 08:10:10 AM
This might very well be true, but the change needs not come from transpeople, but society in general.

Early in transition, I spoke with my minister and explained what was going on with me.  It turned out, one of her colleagues was actively looking into scripture regarding transpeople.  One of the points he focused on was the Story of Adam and Eve the Garden of Eden.  The Garden was, in essence, paradise, a perfect world, until the forbidden fruit was eaten.  Adam and Eve had no concept of gender or their biological differences.

Whether you view the story as fact or metaphor, that point has amazing implications.  Imagine a world where how we appear and act in terms of gender are irrelevant.  In those cases transpeople would not need to change, but could simply be.  "Transition" would be irrelevant.

For most people, the need to transition arises out of the feeling of placing a square peg into a round hole.  The strict rules of society regarding gender make it difficult for us to fit in as we are.  For now our efforts are focused on smooth the edges of our pegs until we fit where we belong.  But slowly there is work being done to change the shape of the holes.  It is possible, that somewhere down the line, future generations will be able to make this change.  But for now, we are in the world as it is, and must cope accordingly.

Changing the world would be astounding, but I don't have control over any but myself.  Hence my focus is on how I can change me to better fit within my surroundings.  Your idea is not lost on me though, were the world to be more gender neutral, we'd see much less unhappiness I believe.

Quote from: pheonix on April 10, 2009, 08:10:10 AM
Whether you view the story as fact or metaphor, that point has amazing implications.  Imagine a world where how we appear and act in terms of gender are irrelevant.  In those cases transpeople would not need to change, but could simply be.  "Transition" would be irrelevant.

For most people, the need to transition arises out of the feeling of placing a square peg into a round hole.  The strict rules of society regarding gender make it difficult for us to fit in as we are.  For now our efforts are focused on smooth the edges of our pegs until we fit where we belong.  But slowly there is work being done to change the shape of the holes.  It is possible, that somewhere down the line, future generations will be able to make this change.  But for now, we are in the world as it is, and must cope accordingly.

It's been very important to me throughout my process of discovery to not just transition due to societal discomfort with those who have non binary gender identity or expression. If I decide to transition again, or to do hrt, it needs to be because I want my body in accordance with my internal sense of self, not simply to fit in to other people's  gender construct.

This is also why I am an activist. I want to change the world to one in which it is OK for any person to simply live as who they are, openly and safely. If someone wants to transition, wonderful But they shouldn't have to do it if they'd rather live in an alternate gender space.

Z

It occurs to me that you can have a kind of cancer that you can go into the doctors office and have treated in under an hour.  Or you can have the kind that requires major radical surgery.  Or you can have the kind where they basically tell you how long you have to live.  There are degrees of difference.  Why can't GID be the same way, some cases are mild, others more extreme?

If there were more social acceptance of difference, if you had other ways to channel it, or guide it, other outlets might that in some ways ameleorate some of the problems would it be the same?

And we're taking about the power of the human mind, which can be a pretty awesome force, one that can create the 9th Symphony of Beethoven or the Bergen-Belsen concentration camp - given that range of extremes, there is not much it can't do in between.

We're talking here about a solution that is radical, and one that has only been around for a short time.  Perhaps there are others ways.  Before SRS and HRT people did cope with this and not all killed themselves, so how did they do it?

And I can see where faith would, or could, help.  I'm not into the whole religion deal, but I do understand there is a power there (from god or in your own mind and perhaps the power of a lots of minds focusing on the same concept) something very real, but as yet unmeasureable.  I can't say that god personally led the American Civil Rights movement, but I can say that anytime a bunch of little old ladies lock arms and say, 'god is moving us forward and we ain't gonna let nobody turn us around' you better get the hell out of their way, because the fire hoses, the police dogs and even bullets ain't gonna stop them. 

I see your point, Tekla, but living with GID in a world where there are no options must be vastly different than living with it in one with options known to you, especially when they are inaccessible.  How'd they used to do it?  They didn't know there was any other way.

I made a couple posts early on in this thread, came back and decided they were rather single minded (sorry!  ) and I deleted them. Only you can know what is right for you, and I commend and respect that you have decided to not transition for whatever reasons. That takes a lot of courage. I only wish you the best of success in whatever you decide to do.

big hugs,
C

disclaimer: opinions that come out of my mouth are not always necessarily those of my brain,  its subsidiaries or affiliates. 

"Disclaimer." I already told my story in part on the topic in another group on how we coped with GID back in the 50's and 60's. I must say that we all have our own story so this doesn't necessarily reflect anyone else here that have come from that era.

As for the old days, oh I knew something was not right with me but I thought I was the only one in the whole world with this problem. I suffered, I anguished, but had no one to talk about it to so I just went on suffering and anguishing alone in silence, except for those brief times where I could play dress up in privacy and fantasize being who I desired and knew myself to be within. Then one day I discovered the magical elixir, alcohol, which numbed this problem to a greater degree and made life much more tolerable. and for a lot of years I used alcohol to dampen the GID. But in the end even the alcohol failed me, it became as intrusive and troubling as what I sought to escape from to begin with.

This is the analogy of GID versus alcohol I was referring to. I had to choose sobriety or face possible death by cirrhosis of the liver. After I stopped drinking, GID was back with a vengeance, it hit full force and brought me to my knees begging for relief.

Today I see it as a blessing, my entire life was a test with many lessons to learn. Each time I took a wrong turn it was as if there was an invisible hand that stopped me and showed me the way back to the main path in my journey. The lessons and the experience of the journey is not yet over, but the light guiding me grows brighter by every step forward I take.

I have been doing a lot of thinking in the past while. I am doing my best to have an open mind to all possibilities and at my age I probably would be considered an exception or even odd, weird or different but to tell you the truth I have always been a bit contrary to conforming to society's expectations and their ideas of what normal is.

Like I have said, I accept myself as a woman and I define myself as a woman, but I am as unique and different to any other woman as each of them are as different and unique unto them selves in comparison to other women, or men, as far as that goes.

But then after having lived as a woman for nine years I could say that to my own observations how men think and feel is astronomically different in comparison, biff, bam, Chicago, slam, bam and the hell with the stereotype crap. I draw a line around my own definition of how I feel as a woman.

Cindy

My story would be similar. I discovered at about 4 years old that I was different. I also learned very early to hind those feelings. Early on I would dress up when I was alone and this worked for a long time. I still believed that this was some type of perversion. When I was 15 my parents surprised me by returning home early and caught me dressing up in my mother's clothes.

My father went into a rage I had never experienced before.  He beat me half to death. It was as if I didn't exist anymore. Every time I fell down he pulled me back up tearing my mother's cloths as he did. I just remember the pain I finally ended up laying on the floor bleeding everywhere. And my mother was just standing there. I don't know if she was afraid of my father or me. I wasn't allowed to tell the truth about what happened back then but at the time no one would have blamed him anyway. And after all I was the one with the perversion.

After that it was all about inward control. I couldn't use alcohol as it made my desires worse and harder keep inward.  But drugs on the other hand were the answer. (I never said I was really that smart) I found I could cope by living within my own mind. No dressing required no clothes to hide, etc. I could live out entire events and never open my eyes. The level of realism was incredible. I was alive, a real walking, talking, Barbie doll. This worked for a long time. But of course as more and more was needed to continue the maintain level of reality tripping requires it ultimately came crashing down.

After that it's was pure denial and distraction for a long time.  Ultimately I learned that anything I did to control or cope was for me just a temporary band aid and that each seemed to be less and less effective.

Cindy embraces and hugs ((((Jilledwards)))) and says, Welcome home hun.

Cindy

I bet it would be pretty close experience. The results  Jilledwards got from dressing up was more frightening to me then anything else in the world. I did get caught but that wasn't until my late teens and all I got was a good tongue lashing from my dad and a threat that he would parade me around in public in a dress.

That only deterred me from dressing for a short time I just learned how when and where to dress where I wouldn't get caught.

Although there are some of us who did begin transitioning back in the good old days, God bless them.  At least I am going to make the best of what I got left. I have never been more at peace and happy with life before in my entire life.

For an example when my partner and I went for a drive out in the country side today as I sat there in my seat in the passenger side yea I got my side of the vehicle decorated girly like, with flowers and and such on the dash board and a Tinkerbell seat cover.

"Darn right!" I'm doing all I can to make up for lost time. It felt so comfortable Like this was the way it all should have been all my life, I leaned over and put my head on my partners shoulder and just closed my eyes and enjoyed the ecstasy of the moment. I love being the little house mouse. I believe one becomes more comfortable and at peace as time passes by.

Cindy

Cindy and Heatherrose 

I don't know what to say except thanks for inviting me into your home. It feels good to be able to share experiences and feel so welcome.

Thanks