I have known many families to accept their children based on who they are, but what I do not understand is why a parent or more would be against what their child or son/daughter's decision because they go against their morals.

Why do they go to the depths to ban feminine/masculine traits and other gender stereotypes or further try to prevent the person they raised in their eye to be who they envisioned them to be?

What is with parents and just not WANTING to understand and accept their OWN children and instead lecture them on why they are RIGHT and their children are WRONG?

I do not understand, mainly because my parents have done so and my gay friend's parents are proud and supportive of his decision to be gay.

What is with this anyway?
I know it is common, but why do parents go to those lengths to prevent it?

In many cultures there is the idea of the 'normal family'.  Kids grow up and marry people of the opposite sex, have sex, have more kids, rinse, wash, repeat.  What can be hard to keep in mind is that our parents have been laying out their fantasies for what *we* will become since LONG before we were even born.  If you have an idea of how things are going to turn out, and you go along with that idea for 15-25 years, and then one day your kid turns around and says SURPRISE I'M ______, it can be a big shock and the reaction really has nothing to do with whether they approve or disapprove, but rather an attempt to cope with years of dreams and expectations suddenly being thrown out the window (or at least seemingly so).

It's really not right for parents to lay out expectations on their kids like that, but it happens and it happens to almost everyone.  I'm going to do my damnedest to let my kids just be whoever they are, but I doubt I'll be perfect.

Anyway, I hope that maybe gives some insight on what parents are thinking when they seem to go all nutso.

I have little support and I see what you mean.

My parents have told me they have expectations but I thought there was more to it and I was right, thank you for telling me :3

Its sad parents do not grow up, I actually dislike the american or valued life-style that is general and desired... almost nothing changes.
If I ever decided to adopt or have a kid, the first thing I would do is instead of expect them to be married to a man/woman I would wait until their decisions have been made and see what they prefer over what should be EXPECTED in society.

Society just seems to be a rinse and re-use cloth for a bathroom if you ask me.
Many people use the same towel every-day, but the cloth becomes dirtier and dirtier every passing day until different towels emerge and others are not happy because the towels are different and perhaps smell or look different or anything else.

Sorry Janet to be replying to your threads in series, but I've just logged on in Australia and you threads interest me.

I think parents want to fit in. Normalacy is something they crave from the birth of their child the biggest wish you hear is; I don't care what sex it is as long as it's normal. In this expression normal equates to healthy.
As the child develops parents try to guide their child along the path of "normal' development. Get their boys to do boy things, get their girls to do girl things. Many parents are almost in a club. Knowing their friends and local neigbours and the people they meet at school with the same aged child, and often the same apparent sexed child. I think, with no evidence  , that it can be an enormous loss to have to admit your child isn't "normal". What will my friends think, I must have been a bad parent etc are the first thoughts.

Accepting your child for what it is, and rejecting your place in society can be very hard for some people. My mother's worst fear was for one of her daughters to get pregnant before marrige. It didn't happen. Then she found her pride and joy was an MtF, she just couldn't understand it. I remember one of the first ( and last) conversations: You don't want to be a man? You don't want to have a wife and family? You don't want your penis? etc etc. She had a stereotype for male behaviour and could not understand any male would want to reject it. To be fair, This conversation took place 43yrs ago, and society has changed. But not all that much. I think you now see a lot of parents accepting Gay children, but accepting a TG child is a bigger leap. But hold on in honey, once your family sees your happiness things may change.

I gave you a kiss on the last post but what the hell

Cindy James

Parents want their children to have a normal life.

Because, normal = happy.

Transgender =/= normal.

Ergo; Transgender =/= happy.


It is a flawed logic, but it's understandable.

 My parents should have had clones not children. The fact that my brother and I are inividuals drove them nuts. When I wanted to grow my hair out when i was 4 or 5 is when it all went hay wire. Now my dad just is not surprzed at anything and has given up. Having long haired stoner macanic kids just wasn`t in the cards for them. My mum has passed away so it`s just my dad. We don`t talk much at this point. I think my dad is jelous of me because i buy speed boats and drive the 4x4`s he`s always wanted. Should I top the cake and tell him I`m trans? LOL I`m not going to because I`m not in transition. Besides  , it would give him a hart atack.Being a parent myself i know we want what is best for our children. ( of corse) But I have desided only my daughters know what that is and not me. They are 7 and 3 right now so they are too young to know but as they age I will remember to support there desissions . There is nothing we as parents can do to change a made up mind. All we can do is hope  we have guided them in the right direction to make the right desissions. And some thing arren`t a desission like being gay or trans, and hope they would trust me enough to come out to me. P.S. I have two younger brothers that fell for the brainwashing and are perfect little mormons now. My dad said ," don`t tell your kids what to do or be and they will be what you want". I think that is bull but it worked for him.

As a parent and also a woman of transsexing history I can say that I am truly happy that none of my children have shown any sign of my affliction. Yes, I do think of it in many ways as an affliction. The pain and turmoil of knowing who I was was not who I was for years and years was in so many ways devastating.

Transition changed that in many respects, but I still have deep hurts from those times. No, my parents were never "supportive" of the things I declared to them about my sex. Of course they knew better they could see that lil thing dangling there and "knew" I was a "boy" not a girl. For them it was simple. And it burned and chafed me for years while I lived in their home, and after I had left their home.

"Why can't they accept this?"

As a parent I want nothing for my children except for them to be able to function in society and have a chance at making themselves some contentment in their lives. My 11 year old still doesn't understand, completely, why I raise hell with him about going anywhere close to the railroad tracks. "But so-and-so's parents don't mind him going there."

Well, in my estimattion so-and-so's parents" aren't very bright and take the needless risk that their child will not come home to them some evening and instead be found lying at the foot of the railway embankment. Keeping my son from that doesn't guarantee that I won't lose him though; I'm aware of that. Yet, it seems to cut-back on at least one reason he might die at age 11 or 12.

I often used to rail in my mind against my parents' inability to see I was a girl. But as I look back on those times I see that they may have had other reasons than their xtianity and their inability to suspend their disbelief. I was having a hard enough time fitting in with other people. I know that my inability to mention who I was for fear of what would happen to me (I had seen a boy branded on his cheek for being a '->-bleeped-<-' by other boys, it was frightening) were I to present myself in that small Tennessee town I grew up in as a girl.

Yes, it's about wanting one's children to "fit-in" enough to where they aren't totally ostracized and made to feel physical pains by their peers. But, knowing what I do about my own life living as myself rather than as what my body once "made me" I find that there is much doubt and fear that accompanies the fact of transsexuality. One desires to spare their children as much pain as one possibly can.

Is it a "fool's errand?" Perhaps so. But the desire to have one's children have a better life than one has had one's self is not at all unusual. And the desire seems to me to be quite positive. Perhaps, more often, we should also look at what our parents' hopes for us are and recognize that they do the best as they see "best." Regardless how we feel about that best.

I'm sure if my father had been alive and able he would have seen to it that I avoided being raped by two men at 19. I feel that even though he was not amenable in the least to my transsexuality that he was very amenable to my not suffering through events that were extraordinarily demeaning and painful for me. 

Understanding is a street that runs both directions. A bit of an attempt at understanding that might be helpful to us all.

Nichole

When my daughter was exploring her sexuality, I thought she might be a lesbian.  I was only concerned because I thought it would make her life more difficult for her.  I was being protective.  (She ended up marrying a male alcoholic who has put her through hell.  So much for pre-conceptions, eh?)  Parents want what is best for their kids.

Parents are also human with faults and frailities of their own.  It can be scary to have a child who is too different.  (And an evident boy who is really a girl is TOO different, at least so far.)  The parent may not know how to relate to their odd child.  The parent may have been scripted by THIER parents to reject anything too far out of the norm.  We all carry a lot of baggage through life - all of us, including our parents.

Quote from: Nichole on April 15, 2009, 08:52:00 AM
Understanding is a street that runs both directions. A bit of an attempt at understanding that might be helpful to us all.

- Kate

Nichole, I always love your writing.

With me it was utterly and completely because of a "God says it's wrong and I believe God over you, end of discussion" mentality. Circular and specious logic, but try telling them that then. They were the kind of parents that placed their brand of Christian dogma and ideology over everything else, even their own children's best interest. Of course to them that WAS my best interest. I really felt singled out and particularly alone, because no amount of logic or reasoning would have EVER convinced them otherwise. It would have been just like beating my head against a brick wall, except the wall beat back with much stronger force. I just withdrew further into my shell as a result, and split home as soon as I was old enough. I always envied the kids who had parents they could at least talk to about stuff. For me growing up, it was never even an option. In later years my parents softened considerably on that pov- and I am quite sure they came to realize that love always trumps ideology, and they did prove that to me. But now my father is dead (2007, rest in peace dad) and my mother is getting on in years, not even sure if it would be worth trying to explain the whole transgender thing at this point. It's sad, really. I do think she would at least try to understand now, and I may yet break it to her, gently. She, and I, have come a long way. Like Nichole said,

Quote from: Nichole on April 15, 2009, 08:52:00 AMUnderstanding is a street that runs both directions. A bit of an attempt at understanding that might be helpful to us all.

The idea that something 'might make life more difficult' and thus should be avoided, is in my opinion, pretty flawed.  If we all went through life making sure ourselves and each other avoided things that 'might make life more difficult' it would be pretty boring.  The difficult parts in my life are the parts I remember the best, and no coincidentally are also the times where I've made the best friendships, and made memories that I can look back at now and say that I am grateful to have gone through that (even if I was not glad to go through it at the time).

I mean, of course there's a limit -- getting violently assaulted or things like that are outside the bounds of what I'm talking about.  But I don't think sexuality is something that we should be worried about 'making life more difficult' over.

Quote from: Vesper on April 15, 2009, 01:51:37 PM
The idea that something 'might make life more difficult' and thus should be avoided, is in my opinion, pretty flawed.  If we all went through life making sure ourselves and each other avoided things that 'might make life more difficult' it would be pretty boring.  The difficult parts in my life are the parts I remember the best, and no coincidentally are also the times where I've made the best friendships, and made memories that I can look back at now and say that I am grateful to have gone through that (even if I was not glad to go through it at the time).

I agree completely.  But as a parent I want my daughter to live a full and interesting life full of sunshine and roses.  A full and interesting life and a life of only sunshine and roses aren't compatible, but I think it's natural for a parent to want to protect their child.

(There's an old curse - Arab I think - that goes: May you live in interesting times.)

My life has been rich in part because of the difficulties.  I just don't want my daughter to have too many difficulties.  I know it isn't logical, but feelings aren't logical.

- Kate

Quote from: Nichole on April 15, 2009, 08:52:00 AM
As a parent and also a woman of transsexing history I can say that I am truly happy that none of my children have shown any sign of my affliction. Yes, I do think of it in many ways as an affliction. The pain and turmoil of knowing who I was was not who I was for years and years was in so many ways devastating.

Transition changed that in many respects, but I still have deep hurts from those times. No, my parents were never "supportive" of the things I declared to them about my sex. Of course they knew better they could see that lil thing dangling there and "knew" I was a "boy" not a girl. For them it was simple. And it burned and chafed me for years while I lived in their home, and after I had left their home.

"Why can't they accept this?"

As a parent I want nothing for my children except for them to be able to function in society and have a chance at making themselves some contentment in their lives. My 11 year old still doesn't understand, completely, why I raise hell with him about going anywhere close to the railroad tracks. "But so-and-so's parents don't mind him going there."

Well, in my estimattion so-and-so's parents" aren't very bright and take the needless risk that their child will not come home to them some evening and instead be found lying at the foot of the railway embankment. Keeping my son from that doesn't guarantee that I won't lose him though; I'm aware of that. Yet, it seems to cut-back on at least one reason he might die at age 11 or 12.

I often used to rail in my mind against my parents' inability to see I was a girl. But as I look back on those times I see that they may have had other reasons than their xtianity and their inability to suspend their disbelief. I was having a hard enough time fitting in with other people. I know that my inability to mention who I was for fear of what would happen to me (I had seen a boy branded on his cheek for being a '->-bleeped-<-' by other boys, it was frightening) were I to present myself in that small Tennessee town I grew up in as a girl.

Yes, it's about wanting one's children to "fit-in" enough to where they aren't totally ostracized and made to feel physical pains by their peers. But, knowing what I do about my own life living as myself rather than as what my body once "made me" I find that there is much doubt and fear that accompanies the fact of transsexuality. One desires to spare their children as much pain as one possibly can.

Is it a "fool's errand?" Perhaps so. But the desire to have one's children have a better life than one has had one's self is not at all unusual. And the desire seems to me to be quite positive. Perhaps, more often, we should also look at what our parents' hopes for us are and recognize that they do the best as they see "best." Regardless how we feel about that best.

I'm sure if my father had been alive and able he would have seen to it that I avoided being raped by two men at 19. I feel that even though he was not amenable in the least to my transsexuality that he was very amenable to my not suffering through events that were extraordinarily demeaning and painful for me. 

Understanding is a street that runs both directions. A bit of an attempt at understanding that might be helpful to us all.

Nichole

I think usually parental disapproval of a child or their actions (I'm being intentionally vague; this does not just apply to transsexuality) is at least partially out of concern for their well-being.  However, if the normal, easy way was working and making the kid happy, they would be doing that.  The best thing a parent can do is offer support; trying to steer them away from a difficult situation is very well-intentioned, but the kid will feel isolated and like they can't talk to their parents.  There are exceptions, and this doesn't apply to trivial stuff or to safety stuff (Mom, I've been looking both ways before crossing the street my whole life, but I'm just not satisfied).  In a Tenessee town like yours, I think that coming out might be a safety issue.  But where the issue is emotional safety, I think it's usually best to go with the child's will.  Not because a child's emotional wellbeing is irrelevant, but because in a case where the child is trying to seek out a different path, obviously the pain of being stifled is greater than the pain of social exclusion or other consequences.

Adrian, you should better read things. I am well past the age of my parents worrying about me. That was in the 60s and early 70s. But thanks for the advice. It would have been more helpful 30 years ago though.

As far as your childd-rearing ideas go, they may work well, or have worked well for you. But basically allowing the child to do "whatever they feel best" seems like a total abdication of any parental care for the child at all. Hate to sound an ageist, but actually would you imagine a 14 y/o has enough experience and moxie to negotiate this world?

I mean, runaways don't usually do really, really well, ya know.

Yes, children should be listened to and parents should accomodate children when they feel they can. But the final call is gonna  be when that kid decides to destroy your house or abuse you because of the way you look or some sort of incident then the parents are still going to be on the hook and you'll be chanting about how they raised their children. No?



Nichole

Quote from: Nichole on April 15, 2009, 07:35:52 PM
But basically allowing the child to do "whatever they feel best" seems like a total abdication of any parental care for the child at all. Hate to sound an ageist, but actually would you imagine a 14 y/o has enough experience and moxie to negotiate this world?

It can also make kids insecure.  My mother wouldn't even give me an opinion on what clothes look best, much less anything else.  I was probably the most clueless person you'd ever met when I left for college.  Kids need and usually WANT guidance, no matter what they say.  Being too easy going doesn't teach children to make good decisions.  Showing children which decisions to make does.  (that's not the same as forcing kids to do things they don't want, btw.  balance is key.) 

When I was scared out of my wits by something my kids told me (they are now 29, 32 and 35) my first reaction was the old "morality" thing.  Five words out of my mouth later, and I realized how far I had put my foot into my mouth.  The problem for me simply was that while I was very open to what my children wanted in regard to their lives, being scared or caught by serious surprise was a trap that made both of us miserable. 

It takes a parent who is very secure in themselves to do the best job of parenting.  I was doing my parenting as a single father for 15 years before my youngest daughter reached 21, and needed some counseling for things I was not doing my best at.  The counselor told me simply, that I would never be able to do the best job of parenting that I could, but I would do the best job I knew how to do.     Put politely, I needed to learn more about the job in order to do it better!!  Parents who stay stuck on the "morality" issue alone NEED to realize that with learning about the child and even the bigger world, they will see where really, their child is living the best part of their real goals.

A favorite passage that I learned from the book "The Prophet" by Kahlil Gibran goes "Your children are not YOUR children, they are the sons and daughters of LIFE longing for itself, and though they come through you, the do not come from you --- You may house their bodies but not their souls".  (Emphasis is mine.)

I have said this often to other parents who know nothing about my Trans issues, but "The worst thing is not finding out your child is gay, lesbian or Trans!!  The worst thing will be to find out they are dead by way of suicide or murder because they were GL or Trans."