Can we say "ordinary" instead of "normal"?

I'd rather have been born an ordinary female.

But I have to admit that I really did like playing football.

On the other hand, I may have enjoyed gymnastics even more.  Or volleyball.

And I might like men, if I didn't have inside knowledge on what scum they are.  Which, I guess is a push.  If I didn't know what jerks they are, I might have married one.

So, for me, it's not even close.  If I had one magic wish it would be to always have been female.  I don't need to be trans to be special.

I believe I am perfectly normal. That is to say, that everything I am, believe, and represent are all within the boundaries of human potential, which means I'm "normal".

But would I love to wake up without the pain that the dysphoria causes. I would love to wake up in the morning, yawn and stretch and feel "in place" within my own skin. I would like to be able to look in the mirror and see something that doesn't make me wretch.
Regardless of whether that would mean I would be rid of the dysphoria alone or I'd wake up in a perfectly male body, I don't really care so much, because both would cause the same results. The release from what troubles me.

However, when I think about that, I realize that this too is a part of what makes me me. Would my partner love me if I weren't me? I don't know.
This is me, this is what I face, and I accept that this is "where" I am. From here though, I hope, Forward Motion!

I'm with you there Miniar!

Quote from: GinaDouglas on April 23, 2009, 03:54:40 PM

And I might like men, if I didn't have inside knowledge on what scum they are. 

O, we really should get away from such generalized statements, I think. We have some rather remarkably nice and dignified males around here. We have a couple who are curmudgeonly but seem to have hearts of gold that they just don't always reveal openly!

I've known way more than just a few males who don't fit the categorization of "scum."

Gender as a play and as a life-long rehearsal that gets one to make command performances. Maybe there's a lot to that. If so, one would think she might find that her ways of performance are exclusive of others' ways of performance, enough so that she might conclude something is "scummy" when it's actually necessary for another to help them do that "command performance."

Plus, I get that "scummy" trait turned about a good deal from males, you know, "all women are scum."

I think a lot of the "scummy" aspects come through ways we rehearse our feelings and thoughts through the lenses of expected behavior and presentation. Sorta like "all femmes are just trying to attract the male gaze" etc.

I dunno, whata ya think?

Nichole

I would never judge anyone else but I have to say I would give just about anything to be "normal".  I feel sad every waking moment that I am the way I am.  I try so hard to put on a so called normal appearance that it is exhausting by the end of the day.  So I guess I have to say being born a girl would of course be my first option if I had a choice.

Quote from: christine01803 on April 23, 2009, 05:57:04 PM
I would never judge anyone else but I have to say I would give just about anything to be "normal".  I feel sad every waking moment that I am the way I am.  I try so hard to put on a so called normal appearance that it is exhausting by the end of the day.  So I guess I have to say being born a girl would of course be my first option if I had a choice.

So sorry to hear that Christine, I guess the problem could be that you were born a girl, just not in the way that the majority understand it.

Take care

Quote from: Nichole on April 23, 2009, 05:04:42 PM
O, we really should get away from such generalized statements, I think. We have some rather remarkably nice and dignified males around here. We have a couple who are curmudgeonly but seem to have hearts of gold that they just don't always reveal openly!

I've known way more than just a few males who don't fit the categorization of "scum."
I dunno, whata ya think?

Many women say "All men are dogs."  I think that's really offensive.  To dogs.

Quote from: GinaDouglas on April 23, 2009, 06:09:51 PM
Many women say "All men are dogs."  I think that's really offensive.  To dogs.

So you really don't base your notions on any experience except the ways you feel you were conditioned to be male?

Nichole

Take it easy Gina. You are going way over the top...

I thought that was just an old joke. Perhaps they were not being serious here.

Quote from: Nichole on April 23, 2009, 05:04:42 PM
I think a lot of the "scummy" aspects come through ways we rehearse our feelings and thoughts through the lenses of expected behavior and presentation.

Also, we got a very close look at boys at just the time when they were trying to learn how to be men. I know I'm generalising, perhaps a bit too much, but after puberty and early twenties I've sort of drifted away from the boys-only social occasions, so the strongest memories are still from such places as school gym or military barracks. Yes, the male mindset (if there is such a thing) is still somewhat alien to me, but from what I've seen adult men are not nearly as weird as boys desperately trying to grow up. I expect the same to apply to women vs. girls, I just didn't get that intensively immersive experience with female puberty and its aftermath.

  Nfr

Quote from: Nichole on April 23, 2009, 06:11:58 PM
So you really don't base your notions on any experience except the ways you feel you were conditioned to be male?

No, my conclusions are based on the way men act, and what they say, when there are no women around.  Primarily the way they talk about women, the way they talk about how they treat the women in their lives, the way they view women as inferior, and the contempt they have for qualities women value, such as honesty and fidelity.  I've never known a man who wouldn't cheat on his wife if he could get away with it, and brag about it to his friends.  And I've known alot of men.

I used to teach history, and I firmly believe that History is the record of 5000 years of stupid machismo mistakes, and the women who loved them anyway.

I thought I saw a survey recently that more women cheat on their husbands than men cheat on their wives.

OK nothing to do with the thread.

No, this came up in another discussion recently, and there are a number of surveys on this issue.  They vary in the difference between men and women cheating, but all have men cheating more.

Also, I said that men would cheat on their wives if they could get away with it, not necessarily that they do.

Quote from: Seshatneferw on April 24, 2009, 02:27:34 AM
Also, we got a very close look at boys at just the time when they were trying to learn how to be men. I know I'm generalising, perhaps a bit too much, but after puberty and early twenties I've sort of drifted away from the boys-only social occasions, so the strongest memories are still from such places as school gym or military barracks. Yes, the male mindset (if there is such a thing) is still somewhat alien to me, but from what I've seen adult men are not nearly as weird as boys desperately trying to grow up. I expect the same to apply to women vs. girls, I just didn't get that intensively immersive experience with female puberty and its aftermath.

  Nfr

I've wondered about that aspect as well, Nfr. Certainly much of my negative experience with males occurred before I was 25. Not that it's not a valid way of making judgements, but still I'm not at all certain that it's fair or accurate to make "entirety" judgements about "all guys" based on my experiences.

At least one of those experiences would tell me that even my sons are rapists and I am not much willing to believe that that sort of experience is readily transferrable to all males. Nor that every kid who tries to impress with his sexual prowess or general ability to take over all conversation is a good example of what it is to "be male." (Although I admit thinking that for many years. Pain will definitely warp ya!)

History is an inexact science and applying it's "lessons" is often a matter of misreading what one age means and interpreting what's left of a record by current standards of belief and behavior. -- Personal history may be more inexact than any other sort, for fairly obvious reasons.

The longer I live, I hope, the less willing I am to make blanket statements about people. My experience appears to lead me to find holes in my certainties when I do that.

Nichole

Quote from: GinaDouglas on April 24, 2009, 04:33:56 AM
No, this came up in another discussion recently, and there are a number of surveys on this issue.  They vary in the difference between men and women cheating, but all have men cheating more.

Also, I said that men would cheat on their wives if they could get away with it, not necessarily that they do.

I have had several relationships with men who didn't do it for me, and while they may have had some distasteful traits/personality quirks, I would not call them "Dogs".  Fortunately I have found a man who is extremely nice.  He seems quite normal too.

On the topic though... I'm firmly of the opinion that being TS is simply a temporary thing, a transition, a journey and is quite "Normal" for a person with GID.  As a woman who's past may not quite match the norm I still consider myself quite normal, enjoy a normal life, in a normal job, with a normal man, in a normal house... (Crap what if being normal was a bad thing...)

LR

hi...Ladyrider .. you said you had friendships with a few men . as a natal woman . did  you mean . how did you find then in regard to there thinking in attatudes to women ......did you like men . . i am a  transfemale  & live as a woman a andro really .. so i did & do think as a women yet in many ways a male . yet did not like being around men .... i did not interact with them in the way i now know they do ... really ..... hated it ....more at home with women ..... just a thought ...
...noeleena...

Quote from: imaz on April 22, 2009, 06:15:50 PM
Hehe!

I confess I enjoy being transgender, I like the transgressive, in between areas of life and to be perfectly frank I love it when people fancy me because of how I am.

Ok, this isn't PC for some as one mustn't enjoy the sexual side of things because of all that BS from Blanchard, Bailey and their fellow zombies, but I do. Nothing to be ashamed of surely? It's perfectly normal for everyone else, so why not for us?

Would I take being a normal cisgendered woman or man over who I am? No, I wouldn't, not least because I consider it a great blessing to be the way I am in that it has forced me to open my eyes and heart to the World and it's people and taken me to places I could only dream of. Alhamdulillah

While I will admit being trans has given me an education I would most likely never had otherwise, I do not consider surgery, electrolysis, voice alteration, hormones and being discriminated against preferable to being able to live my life like most natal women.

When I was firmly entrenched in denial, I would get up in the morning and all day long never give a thought about my gender presentation, my relationship with family and friends or how I'll be received in the world.  That's all changed now.

It's been a year since I've been full time and over two years since I went full time less work.  I've had FFS, BA and GRS and I still struggle to be seen female.  And I have yet to meet anyone who fancys me because I'm transgendered, except maybe ->-bleeped-<- ->-bleeped-<-s and I have no interest in them.

In many ways life is better but in reality I went from one closet into another.  And unless I don't care about being a circus side show or a target for someone's prejudice, I'll have to accept the new closet as my new home.

No, I'd prefer "normal" or at least total stealth.

Julie

Please excuse my ignorance but what exactly is a "->-bleeped-<- ->-bleeped-<-" and how does one distinguish between those who are and those who are not?

Anyway what's the problem if one is fancied for being TS/TG? That's something I just don't understand.

Quote from: imaz on April 24, 2009, 07:44:53 AM
Please excuse my ignorance but what exactly is a "->-bleeped-<- ->-bleeped-<-" and how does one distinguish between those who are and those who are not?

Anyway what's the problem if one is fancied for being TS/TG? That's something I just don't understand.

I believe that the "accepted wisdom" is that a "->-bleeped-<- ->-bleeped-<-" is a man or woman who wants a relationship with an MTF for the purposes of having a penis in the mix on their partner. The stories go that after the penis is gone that such a person is also gone and the MTF is left alone, having lost the appendage that was the "real" attraction.

I presume that such people exist. Although if they did they would seem like just another fetishist, like a person attracted to breasts or thighs or feet to the exclusion of an attraction to the person who had those parts. *shrug*

I believe the notion at work is that the MTF wishes to be desired as a woman, not as a woman with a penis or as a penis. But, I am a bit uncertain on the actual facts of the matter.

O, to answer the original question. I suppose I don't have a preference as I think the dichotomy is a false one.

I suppose I always think of myself as a "normal" woman, but am also a bit uncertain what that means as well. My partner, myself, and our female friends are alike in some ways, but we all have a varied range of likes, dislikes, styles, voices, faces, pasts and desires for future so actually nailing down "normal" seems a bit of a stretch.

Certainly I didn't come to normal in a normal way, but through transition. However, I am not at all sure that anyone is simply born "normal" and grows that way.

I suppose I like to think that each of our journeys are formed from various types and extensions of transitions. Surgeries and hormone replacements and name changes, etc are simply one of many that all humans who actually live their lives go through.

I find it difficult to think that my struggles to become Nichole are any more acute due to transsexing than other people's are who didn't make that particular transition in their lives.

My most difficult transition, in fact, was the one that took me from frightened victim of abuse to survivor. It was the hardest struggle.

Nichole