By Ashley Harrell
Published on May 05, 2009 at 11:44am

QuoteWhen the man who had always been a man walked in, well, that was a little strange. After all, this was registration for the fifth annual Transgender Job Fair at the San Francisco LGBT Community Center last week. The point was to help connect transgender folks — who have a difficult time finding work, even in a thriving economy — with savvy, sensitive employers.

And although there were no hard and fast rules about attendees being gender-bending, it seemed pretty ballsy for a man who had always been a man and who identified as one to show up at the fair. He was in jeans and a buzz cut, and exuded regular-guyness. "What do I have to do?" he asked volunteer Sherilyn Connelly.

Were they kerotype testing at the door?

I guess this means we have to horn-in on unemployed straight guy territory.  Meet me at the bowling alley!

Quote from: GinaDouglas on May 06, 2009, 09:58:34 PM
I guess this means we have to horn-in on unemployed straight guy territory.  Meet me at the bowling alley!

more like transmen who pass aren't trans enough to receive trans services anymore.

The original post said, "man who had always been a man."  There is a difference between passing as a man and being clearly male.  I'll grant there is some chance that this guy was ftm, but it seems more likely that the observation that he was a "man who had always been a man" was accurate.

If you'd read the article, you would have immediately realized that they were quite welcome. Obviously, they were out of the ordinary -- i.e., people who were or looked like cisgendered men were a rarity in the past.

QuoteThat guy was one of about a dozen attendees Connelly noticed throughout the day who looked suspiciously like the gender they were born with.

The article doesn't mention anything at all about asking the men if they were trans or not.  It's ridiculous that someone would write an article like this with nothing to go on but 'looks.'  And why can't transpeople 'look' like their gender?  H'mm?  Why can't a transguy 'exude regular-guyness'? 

In seeking equal rights and equal treatment from society in general, shouldn't we be open to all members of the public?

A Rule of Thumb I try to live by: Always seek out allies and build up your network.

No one can know for this sure, but this guy in question might even have been a HR rep for a large company seeking more diversity in his workplace.

Quote from: TamTam on May 06, 2009, 10:49:48 PM
The article doesn't mention anything at all about asking the men if they were trans or not.  It's ridiculous that someone would write an article like this with nothing to go on but 'looks.'  And why can't transpeople 'look' like their gender?  H'mm?  Why can't a transguy 'exude regular-guyness'?

Exactly. That's what pisses me off about that article. They assume they can tell everyone who's trans. Hell, I can't tell most transguys after they've been on T for a while. What makes them think they can?

Dennis

Hell, If I wanted a job, I would attend any job fairs even if was for monkeys only.

I give the guy 10/10 for initiative.

Buffy

I'd do almost anything for a job right now. I even went to a local gay/trans bar looking for work. A place I claimed I would never go to because of all the stereotypical "entertainers"  that frequent the joint. I give the guy some measure of respect if he was in fact cisgendered but I wonder just how accepting they would be at a convention for cisgendered women if I went?   

i suppose my reaction to this article is also laced with a buddy's experience of trying to attend this job fair.  he's trans and was repeatedly asked, "Sir, are you in the right place?"  and "Sir, this is a job fair for trangendered individuals, as they have a harder time accessing employment.  Are you aware of this?"

He was being read as a cisman.  Hell, I have yet to meet a MTF who finds out I'm trans to actually get that I'm FTM, not a pre-transition MTF.

TEEI has pretty good (bad?) reputation of being quite discriminatory in helping clients that do not pass more than those that do.

Yes, the tenor of the article was rather dismissive of the existence of trans men, but I didn't want to assume that the article's tone was representative of the group. It's a common and unfortunate assumption that "trans" means "mtf."

As to that reputation -- just to be provocative, I'd ask whether that isn't reasonable. "Passability" is certainly something that decreases the amount of employment discrimination, isn't it?

"Sir, this is a job fair for trangendered individuals, as they have a harder time accessing employment.  Are you aware of this?"

OK.  I'll go real slow here then.  I'm sure this job fair had money from the City of SF, and/or the LGBT Center, or other agencies (public or private) that have ordinances, or charters that prohibit discrimination against people based on their sexual orientation or expression.  That sword cuts both ways.  You can't ask for people not to discriminate against you, and then turn around and discriminate against other people. 

Transgenders don't need a job any more or less than any other person, gay, straight, black, white, green, or purple. 

It says more about how hard times are than anything else.  Other than the fact that in SF, non-discrimination means just that, at least sometimes.

Silly peoples!  Don't you all realise that straight cisgendered guys are the most oppressed minority of all, poor hard-done-by darlings?

Sometimes straight cisgender guys have TG partners or TG children and want to enter a workplace that will offer desirable health benefits for the entire family and want to be able to bring such family members to any work-family functions.  I can't think of a better event to attend to find such places of employment.

Of course, in the case of this individual, it may be that he merely seeks a tolerant place of employment (and wants to make sure management doesn't permit anti-GLBT bigotry), or just that he wants a job at all.  However, even in a worst case scenario, it shows that he is acknowledging TGs.  To be welcome at the event, he at least has to be civil, and it is a basic exercise that helps integrate TGs and non-TGs together.  Susan's Place has a substantial share of non-TGs as well, and the site takes pride in not excluding them on the basis of their non-TG-ness, so it's not an precedented idea.

In some ways, being TG isn't particularly clearcut or obvious either.  Let me borrow from our Wiki.  One of the three conditions that can qualify a person as TG is being "...a person whose identity does not conform unambiguously to conventional notions of male or female gender roles, but combines or moves between these."  This condition is broad, perhaps intentionally so as to avoid being exclusionary, but it doesn't take much to "not conform unambiguously to conventional notions of... gender roles."  A second way of TG not being so clearcut is with post-op Transsexuals.  Even though our Wiki definition includes post-ops under the TG umbrella, the main idea of transitioning is to be that target gender, not be a TS of that gender.  Post-ops definitely need to have TG-friendly employers, since background checks can turn up their prior legal sex, but it can be uncomfortable for some of them to claim being TG when they've worked hard to move past being TS.  I remember a member here having a signature to the effect of "I am a woman.  I am not a trans anything."

Given all these points, there is merit to broadening the scope of a "TG job fair" to a "TG-friendly job fair."  Given the event's roots and mission, TG support information needs to remain an important component of the job fair, but there is a lot to be gained by making the event open.  And really, the job fair probably is this way already.  Besides, as other people pointed out earlier, there are plenty of TG people who can pass flawlessly as a non-TG person, so it's not really feasible to turn away people for not being/looking/acting TG.

Those are my early thoughts on the matter.

QuoteSometimes straight cisgender guys have TG partners or TG children and want to enter a workplace that will offer desirable health benefits for the entire family and want to be able to bring such family members to any work-family functions.  I can't think of a better event to attend to find such places of employment.

Nice.

Not discriminatory , but a comment like "I think you would look HOT in a miniskirt and heels!!!"  would have flushed out the truth perhaps....

Daisy

A fair designed to rectify bigotries of society for not being normal returning that bigotry in full against members of society for being normal.