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Tenn. unknowingly marries transgender couple; subject jailed as man, identifies

Started by Shana A, May 13, 2009, 12:37:46 PM

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Shana A

Tenn. unknowingly marries transgender couple; subject jailed as man, identifies as woman

By Associated Press
12:03 PM CDT, May 13, 2009

http://www.whnt.com/news/sns-ap-tn--transgender-marriage,0,3063216.story

CLARKSVILLE, Tenn. (AP) — Jo T. Rittenberry and Jeffery Scott Phillips recently learned their 18-month marriage is invalid because the state considers both to be men.

Rittenberry, who is 46, was born a man but identifies as a woman and claims to have had sex reassignment surgery in Canada. Rittenberry had officials legally change the gender on Rittenberry's Kentucky birth certificate and Tennessee driver's license, the Clarksville Leaf Chronicle reports.

But the Montgomery Sheriff's Department spokesman Ted Denny said Rittenberry is being housed with men because Rittenberry has male genitalia.
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken." Oscar Wilde


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NicholeW.

Yep, one of the big drawbacks to being arrested is that they will actually check out things like what sort of genitalia you possess w/o just taking your word for it.
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tekla

For reasons like this I guess.

The way your dad looked at it, this watch was your birthright. He'd be damned if any slopes gonna put their greasy yellow hands on his boy's birthright, so he hid it, in the one place he knew he could hide something: his ass. Five long years, he wore this watch up his ass. Then when he died of dysentery, he gave me the watch. I hid this uncomfortable piece of metal up my ass for two years. Then, after seven years, I was sent home to my family. And now, little man, I give the watch to you.
FIGHT APATHY!, or don't...
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NicholeW.

Quote from: tekla on May 13, 2009, 01:12:05 PM
For reasons like this I guess.

The way your dad looked at it, this watch was your birthright. He'd be damned if any slopes gonna put their greasy yellow hands on his boy's birthright, so he hid it, in the one place he knew he could hide something: his ass. Five long years, he wore this watch up his ass. Then when he died of dysentery, he gave me the watch. I hid this uncomfortable piece of metal up my ass for two years. Then, after seven years, I was sent home to my family. And now, little man, I give the watch to you.


Yeech!! I know that's not a movie script quote! :laugh:
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tekla

Christopher Walken, in Pulp Fiction - that scene brings tears to my eyes every time I watch it, its near perfect.
FIGHT APATHY!, or don't...
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NicholeW.

Quote from: tekla on May 13, 2009, 01:14:52 PM
Christopher Walken, in Pulp Fiction - that scene brings tears to my eyes every time I watch it, its near perfect.

Yep, it dawned on me as I hit enter!
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tekla

I love the look in the kids face when, after that story, Walken tries to hand him the watch.
FIGHT APATHY!, or don't...
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DarkLady

How they would house her in case she would have undergone proper SRS? In TN post-op is legally male.
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NicholeW.

Quote from: DarkLady on May 13, 2009, 01:28:04 PM
How they would house her in case she would have undergone proper SRS? In TN post-op is legally male.

I'm not sure that post-op is actually "legally male" in TN for the purposes of housing someone with a vagina in a cell. I know that the state will (w/ a pen) cross out one's original birth designation and write the opposite in over the crossout! Yeah, ain't that a hoot? Like you couldn't do that all on your own and that they prolly wouldn't issue a marriage license to anyone they could determine was post-op.

But, I don't know about your question, DL. I dunno, a query to the Montgomery County SD might get you an answer as to how they'd manage things.

I wouldn't expect logic and good sense should color your opinion about what sort of answer you'd get though.

N~
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DarkLady

I am not american so my questions are not valid.
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tekla

Pretty much it ain't even about being an American, but a resident of the Great State of Tennessee as it were.

All of the state is very pretty, but some parts are, well, a bit backward.

But the old If you can't do the time, don't do the crime comes to mind here too.
FIGHT APATHY!, or don't...
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sd

You are dealing with 2 different states.
The woman is from Kentucky and managed to get the birth cert. changed in Kentucky by forging S.R.S. documents.

Tennessee however does not recognize post op status as being female, and considering what happened in Kentucky, documents were again considered forged. She had not had S.R.S. and was using a false birth certificate to pass herself as being a female or post of female.

Had she had S.R.S. chances are no one would have bothered since no one would have questioned the Kentucky birth cert or the woman. Tennessee would have had little way or reason to know.
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NicholeW.

Quote from: Leslie Ann on May 13, 2009, 02:24:00 PM
Tennessee however does not recognize post op status as being female, and considering what happened in Kentucky, documents were again considered forged. She had not had S.R.S. and was using a false birth certificate to pass herself as being a female or post of female.

If that's factual then I guess Calpernia drives very safely when she visits the folks and makes certain that there are no outstanding warrants for her. :laugh:

So the key appears to be not getting one's self charged with domestic assault.
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DarkLady

It remains mystery how TN would house a post-op with vagina. However it seems to that to men's side. Ohio does not recognize sex change however prison placement is based on external genitalia. The final answer is not founded.

Post Merge: May 13, 2009, 02:56:54 PM

Only way would be search are there info about known post-op transsexuals imprisoned in TN. Or be quiet.
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Emerald

Androgyne.
I am not Trans-masculine, I am not Trans-feminine.
I am not Bigender, Neutrois or Genderqueer.
I am neither Cisgender nor Transgender.
I am of the 'gender' which existed before the creation of the binary genders.
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DarkLady

Has TN own way to determine one's physical sex, different than some other states?
The artickle says that in county have not been completely post-op cases.

Post Merge: May 13, 2009, 05:21:31 PM

The artickle says that the placement was based on physical however it also says that the placement was based ''lack of documentation that she was female from birth''. Quit confusing.
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tekla

They have what every the law says, and for the US that's fifty different laws (plus a different federal law) and whatever the locals can get away with.  You get to some of the backwoods areas of Tennessee, where the sheriff is the judges brother, and their cousin is the mayor, they can pretty much do what they want for a long time.

relevant sections of the article:
Rittenberry was housed with the men based on the physical.

"He still has male genitalia, and as far as the state of Tennessee is concerned and the jail is concerned, he's still a man," Denny said. "He will be treated like a man — with respect — but he has to be treated like a man because all documentation points to his male gender from birth."

Capt. Douglas Tackett, administrator of the jail and workhouse, said transgender people are offered protective custody if they have problems among the general population.

Rittenberry is in isolation for protection.

"In a facility like ours or any prison facility, when you have someone to fall in that category, he could be taken advantage of," Denny said. "He is in isolation to keep from being injured or someone hurting him."

Tackett said he doesn't remember having an inmate come into the jail with a complete sex change procedure.
FIGHT APATHY!, or don't...
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DarkLady

It really says two reasons a. genitalia b. birthsex. In case they are different?
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Arch

I recently learned from a reliable source--though I have yet to verify it--that my own city houses inmates based on genitals. So an FTM can be totally finished with his transition and be legally male with the DMV, SSA, and vital records office (for the birth cert) but still be housed with female inmates because he never had phallo.

This strikes me as more than a little problematic. Especially when there's a lot of facial hair involved.

So I'm wondering if such policies are the general rule around the country. I would guess that they are. But anybody know?
"The hammer is my penis." --Captain Hammer

"When all you have is a hammer . . ." --Anonymous carpenter
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DarkLady

By genitals is the general rule. But would post-op FTM had external male genitalia (even made by a doctor)?
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