It's interesting.  Just in the last week or so - coinciding with the effects of T starting to make noticeable, but not obvious changes - I've found that people seem to be reacting to me differently.  For some reason, guys are talking to me more than they used to.  I'm talking about strangers striking up conversations; guys at work who didn't used to give me the time of day, suddenly joking around with me; and so on.  Maybe I'm just happier and it's making me more approachable.  Any of you notice changes in the way people react to you as you move through transition?

Yes, some. I've never sought out women or conversation with women, so if they have stopped talking to me or stopped looking at me in the same way, I haven't noticed.

But guys do seem to be friendlier and treat me differently.

I put it down to a combination of things. I'm more comfortable with myself, yes. But my voice has changed, I bind, and perhaps my face is changing a little. (I definitely have face fuzz where women don't normally get much, but it's incipient.)

It could also be pheromones. People pick up on them without being fully aware. If your body is starting to smell male, some people will react differently to you than they would have otherwise.

Same thing happened going the opposite direction.  I have women who are strangers to me doing those woman-y things like out of the blue complimenting me on hair/clothes/makeup.  Or they commiserate about some shared injustice.  And now I do it naturally.

All I can say is, enjoy it!  You're finally coming home!

=K

Totally!  I used to practically have a tantrum in the store to get any employee to help me, I was that invisible as a middle-aged, slightly overweight, average looking woman; now they're all over me seconds after stepping into the store.  Then, they just keep chatting and chatting.  Clients shake my hand 9x out of 10, whereas it used to be maybe 1-2/10.  I feel like people respect me more, and take me seriously.

It's cool!


Jay

I don't want to rain on your parade, and I know that this is the guys' forum and all ... but there is something distasteful to me about the privilege gradient in transition. Jay, I don't think it's "cool" that people resepct you as a person simply because they perceive you as a man; I think it's "awful" and "sexist" that they didn't when they perceived you as a woman.

Similarly, I have several barbs I've come to use when people tell me "welcome to being a woman" when some form of discrimination or lack of privilege comes up. Yes, I get it, this society is sexist. I already knew that. But I'm not going to rejoice in sexism just because experiencing it makes me feel like a woman or like I'm "passing" or whatever.

But -- I absolutely will rejoice in finally starting to be accepted as "one of the girls" and definitely NOT as "one of the guys" in social situations. It's wonderful and affirming and a huge weight off my shoulders.

Is it nice to be respected? Yes.  It is unfortunate that it only came once you started appearing male those around you? Absolutely.  What you're talking about is male privilege and reveling in it is a sexist action in and of itself.

it's related, but not "the same" topic...

Did T change the way you saw yourselves? Not just the actual physical changes, but did you feel different towards "yourself"?

Quote from: Miniar on May 23, 2009, 05:26:05 PM
it's related, but not "the same" topic...

Did T change the way you saw yourselves? Not just the actual physical changes, but did you feel different towards "yourself"?

I started feeling differently about myself once I fully accepted myself as transsexual and male. Unfortunately, other people did not necessarily respond to my gender the way they would have if I'd been on T for several months.

Now that I am on T and am starting to physically transform, yes, I do feel even more differently about myself. As many of you know, it can be very confusing and lonely to see yourself a certain way but constantly have other people seeing you in a different way. Now, the way people respond to me is falling in line with my own self-perception. Not always, but a lot of the time. That helps a lot.

It's funny, but I've spent a great deal of my life not caring what people thought of me personally. But it wore me down to have people consistently reading me as a woman or a straight woman or a dyke...as any kind of woman. I couldn't live my life in a vacuum. I needed to transition medically.

I would like to know more about people who don't transition medically. Is their dysphoria less severe than that of transitioners? Is their sense of self much stronger? Do they adopt coping mechanisms that I never dreamed of? I would really like to know because I fought against transition for so long but finally had to admit...well, defeat in a way. My need for HRT and surgery eventually outweighed my ability to cope without them.

All of which is now off topic. But interesting to me, nonetheless.

Quote from: Alyssa M. on May 23, 2009, 04:11:12 PM
I don't want to rain on your parade, and I know that this is the guys' forum and all ... but there is something distasteful to me about the privilege gradient in transition. Jay, I don't think it's "cool" that people resepct you as a person simply because they perceive you as a man; I think it's "awful" and "sexist" that they didn't when they perceived you as a woman.

Similarly, I have several barbs I've come to use when people tell me "welcome to being a woman" when some form of discrimination or lack of privilege comes up. Yes, I get it, this society is sexist. I already knew that. But I'm not going to rejoice in sexism just because experiencing it makes me feel like a woman or like I'm "passing" or whatever.

But -- I absolutely will rejoice in finally starting to be accepted as "one of the girls" and definitely NOT as "one of the guys" in social situations. It's wonderful and affirming and a huge weight off my shoulders.

I completely agree with you.  I don't think Jay meant to imply that being treated differently because he was a man was cool in itself, only that A) Being seen after being invisible for so long is such a great feeling and B) Being seen as he sees himself - even if it's in a way that reflects poorly on our society - feels great as well.

---

The thing that fascinates me, is that consciously people still perceive me as female, yet they seem to be reacting to me slightly differently than they did before.  Although among strangers I am starting to get to the "is it male or female?" stage.     The other day I had a lady behind the counter call out to her co-worker, "Hey, Daphne?  Can you help this, uh, person find the ..."  I had to smile at that.

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Post Merge: May 23, 2009, 06:35:14 PM

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Quote from: Arch on May 23, 2009, 06:02:29 PM

It's funny, but I've spent a great deal of my life not caring what people thought of me personally. But it wore me down to have people consistently reading me as a woman or a straight woman or a dyke...as any kind of woman. I couldn't live my life in a vacuum. I needed to transition medically.

Wow.  I could have written that myself.  I completely feel you there.

Quote
I would like to know more about people who don't transition medically. Is their dysphoria less severe than that of transitioners? Is their sense of self much stronger? Do they adopt coping mechanisms that I never dreamed of? I would really like to know because I fought against transition for so long but finally had to admit...well, defeat in a way. My need for HRT and surgery eventually outweighed my ability to cope without them.

All of which is now off topic. But interesting to me, nonetheless.

Maybe you should post that question to the Non-Op forum.  I agree it would be interesting to hear what people have to say.

yes people treat me a lot nicer in general. it's male privilege I agree, but it's also the fact that before when I was still clearly female it was also really obvious that I was gay. people don't treat people who look different very nice. but now that I just look like a little boy strangers seem more comfortable I guess you could say around me, strike up conversation easier, smile more, things like that. I don't think it's all male privilege though, it's just that now I blend in with everyone else

I experienced men and women seeming to 'respect' me more as well... which before transition I didn't really contemplate would happen. Though, it feels nice to be smiled at by strangers et cetera... I think the majority of it comes from the fact I no-longer look like a flaming lesbo-dyke.

Now I am somewhere between straight-male looking and flaming fairy XD

Quote from: Chamillion on May 23, 2009, 10:25:48 PM
yes people treat me a lot nicer in general. it's male privilege I agree, but it's also the fact that before when I was still clearly female it was also really obvious that I was gay. people don't treat people who look different very nice. but now that I just look like a little boy strangers seem more comfortable I guess you could say around me, strike up conversation easier, smile more, things like that. I don't think it's all male privilege though, it's just that now I blend in with everyone else

I agree, Chamillion. It seems to be both, in my life. Definitely male privilege in many cases, but it's a factor that I've gone from appearing to be a masculine-looking lesbian to a straight male. It's not just gender privilege, it's also sexual orientation privilege in my case.

And I don't think enjoying your own good fortune is sexist in itself. What is sexist is taking on that mantle of privilege as though it's deserved and never making any efforts to counter sexism when you are able to. After 42 years in the wrong body, I've paid my dues thank you. I also may be a beer-drinkin' truck-drivin' redneck, but I make every effort to treat women equally and with respect. (Something my girlfriend may not be that thrilled about when I assume that she's perfectly capable of helping me get the boat off my truck.)

I'm happy to be treated well, treated with respect, and not be afraid to walk alone at night. I think it's, to quote Jay, cool. I wish it was that way for everyone, women, men, people of colour, gays and lesbians, and the disabled.

Dennis

In times when I pass ''better'' people are generally much more friendly than they were before my transition. 

Wow, it's great to hear peoples reactions get better to you post-T .

I was told that I'd be seen by society as a freak and never have any hope of fitting in (not that that would stop me, I'm an outcast as it is).

It's also good to know I'm not the only one pre-T that gets an icy reception from the general public! People that blend well have been telling me it's all in my head (same person as above, go figure), and I was starting to believe I was going mad!

We hear so much about the medical effects of T, it's nice to something in regards to the social effects.

For me it is then about social effects of estrogen perhaps.

I think it has a lot more to do with how you view yourself, then with how others view you - though, no doubt, being happy, and confident attracts that in others just as sure as walking around like a little cloud of woe drives others away.

Quote from: tekla on May 24, 2009, 10:30:00 AM
I think it has a lot more to do with how you view yourself, then with how others view you - though, no doubt, being happy, and confident attracts that in others just as sure as walking around like a little cloud of woe drives others away.

<ahem>

=K

I present as female, I have long hair and generally look pretty straight...i dont act it (in fact someone i work with has told me i "should have been a boy" xD), and i'm overweight. strangers say hi to me, i get head nods every once in a while, customers where i work strike up conversations with me, and i seem to be generally liked. granted i don't really have any close real life friends that i hang out with, but on the surface people react to me well.....this isnt male privilege. I'll be really curious how or if this changes if/when i get on T and am more comfortable with myself 

Haha, this thread reminds me of something that happened after I'd been on T for about a year. My mom and I were at Costco when our car battery died, so we went into the auto parts section to get a new one. My mom asked the salesman a bunch of questions about which battery we needed, but I noticed that he addressed all of his answers to me -- even though my mom was clearly the one who knew what she was doing. (I guess he thought he'd be disrespecting me as a man if he talked to her...weird.) This actually gave me a bit more respect for my mom and what it must have been like for her to work in a male field (power plant technician) for as long as she did.

(On the other hand, I was the one who installed the battery while she fussed and warned me not to electrocute myself. It's hard to stop being "mommy," technical skills or no technical skills...!)

Yup. I have noticed guys talk to me more, girls more less so and I feel respected a hell of alot more now.

Its all good!

Jay