Quote from: Tekla
And it good talking with people, being with people, and working with people who you like to work with.  Its good to do that in a collaborative setting too, because it helps reinforce the notion that reality is not all about you.  Nothing in the world is better for your self image than being a part of something greater than yourself.

These are interesting comments.

I no more chose to be an introvert than I chose my skin color, sexual identity, or gender identity. But, I'd encountered before the idea that introverts crave solitude out of selfishness. I don't think that's the case for me; I'm very much aware that "reality is not all about" me. What I find interesting is that before now, I'd considered some extroverts to hold the idea that "reality was all about" them. Of course, that might not be the case for those extroverts any more than my introversion being an expression of selfishness. Still, it bears thinking about.

Most of the time when my MP3 player is on, it's for the sheer enjoyment of music. But, there are those times when it's an intentional barrier.

For me, knowing that I'm but one drop in the ocean of humanity doesn't really do much to "better" my "self image." Rather, to me, it reinforces the opposite. I'm just one person. I have billions of peers on this planet. I was preceded by billions and I'll be followed by billions more. This knowledge makes me feel somewhat insignificant.

But, perhaps you meant smaller groups that are sill "greater than" the individual. I'd agree then, that it does help my self image when I feel like I'm a part of something. Now, if I could just more easily get past the stress I feel at times in such groups, that would be great.

People (non-introverts) have suggested that I just put up with it. "Come on, how much could it hurt to be friendly?" Those are the exact words, but the basic meaning. And, these sentiments are usually cajoling, and not demeaning. I think that these non-introverts just don't understand my particular introverted point of view. That's fair: I don't understand a typical extroverted point of view. To me, this cajoling is almost like telling me to just accept my male body; how much could it hurt to just take on the role of "man?"

There are times when I do try to just be friendly and involve myself in one form of community or another. Sometimes, it works. Sometimes, it's stressfull and it could be argued that it does indeed "hurt" to an extent. There's a certain amount of why should I endure that which I find stressfull that comes to mind. I don't like my job, but I choose to endure it so that I can provide for my family. I don't really like by body, but I choose to endure it because my financial resources are limited and I feel it's more important for me to provide for my family.

I'm going to a friend's place for a party next week and I have mixed feelings about this. There will be folks there who will talk at me rather than with me. It's not malicious; it's just the way they are. I find that difficult to endure, but I'm choosing to endure it this time.

But all in all, this bears thought. I don't believe reality revolves around me and I don't want others to think that I'm self-centered. I want to be mostly invisible except for those times when I want to be otherwise. My hopes with "passing" are part of that invisibility. I want to appear so convincing that I'm invisible. I don't want to be remarkably beautiful (there are mirrors in my home, so I know that won't be the case) but I don't want to be remarkably ugly, either (this could be a greater challenge). I want to disappear into the background, whether I present as male or female. I think presenting in an androgyous way would be more visible, but there are times when I don't want to retreat. Is it those times when I am most truly myself? I'm still not sure.

Because technology in many ways (but not all) serves to cut us off, not just as the article says, from others, but from the natural world, turning it off and getting out can change things too.

Or perhaps change is not the right world.  Something more akin to perspective, and that sense of being a part of something greater than yourself is a perception that few anymore seem to have.

I've been skiing since I was five.  I have a friend who is about to turn 60 who has been surfing since he was 14.  And I know - because we talk about it a lot - that we both find a similar deal in it, and feel that to a degree it saved our lives.  I'm sure Alyssa feels the same way about technical climbing, because when I was younger I did a lot of that also. 

We get so wrapped up in our worlds, that we forget how big the world really is, how small we are in it.  The mountains, standing up on KT-22 or Squaw Peak in Tahoe, or sitting on a surfboard offshore there out at Montara, or Ocean Beach, that stuff is huge.  The world (or ocean) seems - because it is - vast, sweeping, and almost unending.  But, its also something you can be a part of.  You can not 'conquer' it, but you can work with it.  You must respect it, or else it will kill you, but its not just going to up and kill you for no good reason.

I think one of the reasons that physical activity tends to help with minor depression is not just the physical deal (though, real physical pain drives out psychological pain) but its also the getting the hell out of your room, and out into the world.

I think.

Perhaps in part for my field of employment, I've been hearing this criticism of technology for nearly two decades.  It always struck me oddly, though, as it was through the online world that I was able to make connections.  This was particularly important for me at the later part of a time when I my "real-life" was severely restricted - my teens, which began in the mid-1980s, were a time where my social circle was really limited to immediate family, a restriction under which I chaffed but was powerless to change.  I gained freedom from that shortly after the online world became accessible.  And in it I was able to find places where my lack of social experience wasn't as much a problem as I found it to be in the big blue room.

In time, I came to feel more connected for my participation online.  What I kept encountering in face-to-face situations was people who didn't want to engage, they wanted to escape.  In a way, I needed to as well, which ultimately involved moving out of state.

I agree with Janet Lynn.
I never evolved the social skills to respond and make friends, they were all guys and I wasn't. I left UK and came to Australia at 23yrs, alone and lonely (thanks Pink). Since I didn't know anyone it's been a battle to make friends. I've made more friends on this site than I have physically. Sad. I also don't really get on with the local TG groups.

Cindy, Alone and Lonely

Making friends in the physical world means you need to engage life. You need to give to society without expecting a return. Many people are unwilling to do that as they are consumers that need their fix of materialist goods. Putting you time into doing physical things leads to physical relationships.

To me there is a difference between expecting a return and ever getting a return.  I define "return" to include gaining relationships.  I was putting the time in doing physical things and the only thing that happened was consuming my time and energy, of which I only had so much and I was coming close to simply being exhausted.

Putting you time into doing physical things leads to physical relationships.

True that.  I think in the end most people are kind of shy, its just that some fake it better, or worry about it less.

Has anybody seen WALLE?

They kind of make fun of humans doing themselves in with technology.

I've not seen it, but that description combined with the trailers reminds me of a short story I had to read in high school.

For me, a large amount of it comes down to what my father noted was that my sense of what constituted my community was vastly different than what he considered it.  For my part, I've been a bunch of places I never would have gone otherwise if not for the connections made online.

My first forray into the world of pixels and bytes, oddly enough, was not related to being TS. Lets just say that in the late 70s/early 80s there was a whole new digital frontier out there to be tamed... and even back then it was too easy to remain alone, sequestered in a room at 4am with only the sound of the HVAC system kicking in and the faint glow of an amber VT100 terminal and a Trash80. But even back I reached out to others I had met, and developed friendships... and yes, met more than a few in person. And not more than a couple resulted in friendships that blossomed into something very real in the "real world".

This time its different... and the same... all at the same time. The loneliness that filled my head and heart was for having to live in a world I couldnt share. The virtual world opened up doors and allowed me to see I was not alone. But that only worked for a short time. I have never been satisfied to hide behind some avatar, and Ive made more than a few friendships that resulted in meeting in person.

Sometimes there is no choice. I doubt I will ever have the chance to meet friends I made over half a world away in Melborne and such... but somehow the need for a real human touch, to be able to interact beyond the pixelated medium, its as strong a drive as the other passions and pursuits in my life. I actually have a MySpace page, but I think maybe Ive been there maybe a 1/2 dozen times. And often, while these forums do provide an avenue to connect, to chat, to vent, to exchange ideas, it can leave me with an empty feeling that only real contact can provide.

Oh, BTW... its very easy to blame the computer and technology for this... but when I mentioned this topic to my folks they reminded me of yelling at us kids to shut off the TV and go out and play with friends. Sound familiar?