The game is as simple as it is old.  Smoke and mirrors like magicians.  Bread and Circuses like the Romans. 

Distraction.
Diversion.
Misdirection.

So let's get everybody worrying about Presidential ->-bleeped-<-s, or Gay Marriage or some other issues that effects two, or just a few, while stuff that impacts the many - well, we're much to busy to get into that.

Didn't make enough money to buy a new car?  Or, like me, gave up cars.  Congratulations.  You're about to buy one anyway.  On the up side, you won't have to take delivery.  Couldn't buy a house, or if you did you kept up with your payments?  Congratulations, you're about to buy houses for those who didn't.  Didn't want to risk playing the market, you made safe investments?  Guess what, you're about to buy all the bad paper you missed the first time around.

And who is going to be driving those new cars?  Taking the profit while losing the losses?  Buying their fourth multimillion dollar house while you can't even afford the one your in now?  Not me.

Tekla, the correct spelling of the expletive is, "F-R-A-K," (in the parlance of our times).

Personal Bankruptcy Act? That's nothing. It all stems from the aftermath of the 1978 Supreme Court decision in Marquette v. First of Omaha. That aftermath only really got rolling about 20 years later. Congress has consistently failed to correct the problem, and today credit card companies can charge rates that might tempt Paulie to leave his life of crime.

I choose to use FARK, after my favorite website.

Another thing -- it's the old saying, if I owe you $1000, that's your problem; if I owe you $100 billion, that's your problem. China, you hear that? Also, no, all that debt we're running up now will not be paid by our grandchildren. It will be paid by the Chinese and by all those responsible people with ample retirement accounts. That is, it will be mostly inflated away in the next couple decades. Frankly, as drastic and scary as it is, it's a lot less scary than doing what Japan did in the '90's, or what Hoover did in the early '30's. Okay, warn about excessive government debt, sure, but "excessive" means a different thing in a crisis than in times of prosperity. Running deficits during periods of low inflation and prosperity -- now that's just stupid. We can talk about it again when we get there.

Politics, religion and idiots all go in the same round basket 

Quoteand our grandchildrens, grandchildren will still be paying it all off

Look at the big picture. It is not the money, it is only a symbol. The whole U.S. could lose faith and go bankrupt. or they could change the currency like in third world countries. Only real objects would be worth trading. Our future generations are going to shape their world and not pay our debts there could be a revolution if things are bad enough or another world war and we all know where that will go. Not to mention the problems with the changing climate and pollution.

I don't think it was always this broken.  Somewhere along the line the scale became so vast, so sweeping and so interconnected that it all began to spin out of control.

Our national debt is now at, what, 11 trillion. Thats 11,000,000,000,000. Thats about $36,000 per man, woman, and child in the US.

and we haven't even begun to install a National Health Care System yet.

When does the Zimbabwe style inflation begin?

Well of all the proposed ideas for Nat. Health Care, the most obvious choice - Single Payer - is not even on the table.  Which does not give me much hope of getting a real health care policy through, but only something with more band-aids on a hemorrhage.

QuoteWhen does the Zimbabwe style inflation begin?

Is life about humans or money? Communities do not need money. People share and help each other a concept that government has forgotten. A concept that controls out of scale buying and selling, a concept that puts everyone on equal footing. We can not have out of control consumption or population growth. When the people say no to the worthless toys that the market and government shower us with things will change for the better. Propaganda has everyone thinking they can buy happiness.

No doubt, what a lot of this is - despite everyone thinking its not, hoping, praying its not - is the end of the shop till you drop consumer based lifestyle, and with it, all those things like random and endless use of automobiles, the suburban sprawl/WallMart consumption cycle, the useless jobs (middle management, consultants, administrators) the non-productive stuff.  And its going to go down real hard.

Quote from: lisagurl on June 03, 2009, 10:13:22 AMPropaganda has everyone thinking they can buy happiness.

Reality has made me come to believe that money can sure buy my way out of hunger, suffering and needs. It's the "wants" though that keep f'in with my mind.

Quote from: michellesofl on June 03, 2009, 11:28:54 AM
Reality has made me come to believe that money can sure buy my way out of hunger, suffering and needs. It's the "wants" though that keep f'in with my mind.

As someone who hasn't owned a television in over five years, it's amazing how much my 'wants' have decreased.  Give me a week of house sitting for a friend with a million channels of cable and no internet and all of a sudden, I'm recalculating my budget in my head and craving the food from every commercial I saw. 

Kill your TV and I guarantee you'll spend less $.

Simple way of managing your wants is to get a simple financing program and getting into the habit of filing in it every single spent and gained coin you make (Buddi for Windows, and Cashbox for mac are my personal favorites).. as soon as you start to "look" at every coin in and out, it becomes easier to see just how much money gets used up by pointless, impulse wants.
_

Back on topic, My political leanings are such..

I'm a democratic socialist who would be an anarchist communist, if I believed the system could work.

Quote from: michellesofl on June 02, 2009, 09:51:53 PM

Oh, Daisy.

Obama was the one to walk thru the door of current spending. However Bush certainly opened it for him.

I am willing to bet that each administration has exceeded the previous in spending... however it appears Obama wants to exceed the Bush 8 Years in his first.

I think Clinton spent less than the Reagan/BushI team did on the average.

Quote from: Nichole on June 02, 2009, 05:52:46 PM

As far as being "impressed" was concerned. I don't anticipate that from you to ever last very long anyhow., Daisy! 

Not sure I understand the animosity -- I was impressed we had common ground.  I respect everyone opinions on this board, but that does not mean I have to agree.  I have done nothing to you personally, except not see the current or past administration the way you do.   But this is America, and I do currently have the right of free speech, just as you do.

Daisy

---

Post Merge: June 03, 2009, 02:16:59 PM

---

Quote from: tekla on June 03, 2009, 02:12:07 PM
I think Clinton spent less than the Reagan/BushI team did on the average.

Maybe -- maybe not

http://www.libertyunbound.com/archive/2004_11/bradford-spending.html

Quote from: daisybelle on June 03, 2009, 02:14:33 PM
But this is America, and I do currently have the right of free speech

I was under the impression that "this" is a forum, on the internet, where the forum owner is free to restrict your speech.

Quote from: lisagurl on June 02, 2009, 03:26:01 PM
Drink water. Daisy

Think I need some sedatives too....

---

Post Merge: June 03, 2009, 01:27:52 PM

---

Quote from: Miniar on June 03, 2009, 02:18:55 PM
I was under the impression that "this" is a forum, on the internet, where the forum owner is free to restrict your speech.

Seems to be this question was asked for "political leanings".   Or was it really meant to be "Hey any of you lefties make your self known".

Forum owner -- please slap my hands because the left side here is too closed minded to hear any of my spewing of anything conservative because it is offensive.... If you-yourself-the owner find any of the text here offensive.

Daisy


Asking again:
The point is -- How much do you think is acceptable for the government to take out of every dollar you make?
For the rich living off of inhertance -
For the rich working -
For the Middle class working -
For the Poor working -
For the Poor unemployed -
For the Unworkable -

Or should it all be the same rate....

Daisy

Looking at that bar graph, it looks like Reagan started spending like a drunk sailor, Clinton attempted to reduce it (and had good economics on his side, its not the spending as much as the deficit spending that hurts) till Newt&Co started the Contract on America.

And you're missing the Golden Years of Bush II, when that stuff really went up, if the numbers are even right, and I doubt that they are, as the real dollar amounts are often not recorded correctly, like fighting the Iraq War off the books so to speak.