This question was sort of inspired by the conversation in the Real Life Issues forum about being a "M2F Lesbian"

Let me first qualify this post by saying that I have no inherent bias for or against a particular outcome. thee is one consideration which I will mention in a sec but it sort of cancels itself out. I am simply asking about your experiences as a way to grasp what is POSSIBLE. I'm aware that no one can predict how it works with any given individual.

The question then is this:

I have been told in other places that sometimes - but not always - a person will find their sexual orientation or desires change once they begin HRT. To wit: a M2F who was very and only attracted to females and not at all sexually interested in men before hormones finds after a time that she has become, at the least, Bi, if not wholly interested in men and little if any interested in women.

Has anyone here had that experience? I hesitate to fully trust the testimony I have had befoe because it often comes from people encountered on more sexually oriented boards and I wonder how much fake/fetishism influences the content.

I find myself rather fascinated with this possibility. I have never felt any sexual desire for a male, and yet, there is a part of me that is fascinated with the possibility that I would someday desire to be a man's girlfriend. I also confess to being fascinated with the concept of being an object of male desire or engagin in sex with a man.

It is a very odd feeling to honestly look at men, open to the idea of finding them attractive and NOT finding that desire there and, at the same time, having an intense curiosity about what it would be like.

Alas, I digress.

I have no desired outcome here - from a personal perspective staying at least equally attracted to women would be good since I am married...but that is canceled out by the fact that my wife is adamant that she will not have sexual contact with a woman. (though I suppose this might change over time)

So -  I throw the question out to the room: Do some M2F "acquire" a (previously non-existent) sexual desire for males during HRT or is this a myth?

There is always the possible out come of no sexual interest in anyone.

It was a few years before i started transition that i found out i was asexual, all my life i had no sexual feeling for either gender, for those that don't know it means no sexual feelings for either gender but doesn't mean i can't be friends with both.

I have been on hormones a year and for awhile i thought my feelings were leaning toward men but as time went on i realized that was not the case, i just have a need to snuggle whether it be a man or a woman, so i have changed some but I'm still asexual.

Paula

Women in general seem to have more fluid orientations. Women seem to be more likely to be bi than men or at least more likely to experiment. Then again, female hormones have a powerful effect on sense of smell and men smell good.

Quote from: paulault55 on June 03, 2009, 03:31:42 PM
It was a few years before i started transition that i found out i was asexual, all my life i had no sexual feeling for either gender, for those that don't know it means no sexual feelings for either gender but doesn't mean i can't be friends with both.

I have been on hormones a year and for awhile i thought my feelings were leaning toward men but as time went on i realized that was not the case, i just have a need to snuggle whether it be a man or a woman, so i have changed some but I'm still asexual.

Paula

Paula very interesting.  I like to snuggle with some people.  It is O.K. if they are a man or woman and they are my close friend.  I seem to have no to little interest in sex.  The HRT has decreased my sexual desires.

Quote from: lisagurl on June 03, 2009, 03:11:57 PM
There is always the possible out come of no sexual interest in anyone.

Also true. Upon self examination I concluded that I'd rather be an asexual woman as a very actively hetro male if those were the only two options.

I, personally, was straight in the life before time lost.  And I find now, even though I had no interest in men then, I like men.  But I call myself Bi, because if I find someone, regardless of gender, that I love and who loves me I shall be happy.

Janet

I've always found women attractive but in high school as I become more honest with myself I began to acknowledge my attraction to men as well. Still though I've always found women to be more visually appealing. Finally though I had sex with a man and it was one of the best experiences of my life (well he had some odd habits like continually asking my mother's maiden name but that aside it was heavenly). It wasn't until midway through when he tried touching my penis that I even remembered it was there, and that was the big downside to the whole thing.

When I got a girlfriend and we became sexually active I found the experience very distressing. I didn't enjoy, the role, or the sensation, and least of all the role my penis played. We did everything but none of it worked. I had to take pills to get an erection and despite trying over fifty times I couldn't ejaculate. She thought it meant I didn't love her and it was ultimately the cause of our breakup.

So Laura, even though I'm pre-trans (perhaps a never trans I don't know yet) I'd say that yes it is possible to activate latent desires. In college I had a class on Human Sexuality and we had a man come in who had identified as gay his whole life and yet ended up getting married and enjoying sex with his wife as well despite still calling himself gay. I personally believe sexuality can be more fluid than we are raised to think.

QuoteStill though I've always found women to be more visually appealing

I think this is a common bisexual trait. I like to look at women, watch women, and I get more turned on visually by women, it seems. I think it's just that unless one is strictly into men, women are the nicer to look at of the species.
They were made that way, to catch attention.

I'm finding the opposite to be the case.  Before hormones I was primarily attracted to men, but could imagine myself being with a woman. Now that I'm on T I find myself becoming even more attracted to men, and any attraction I had for women completely evaporating.  Of course, that might also have something to do with developing a huge crush on a particular guy shortly before starting homones. 

I was always attracted to women.  I had no objection to men (other than that they tend to be loud, dirty and oafish), but I never ran into a man I was attracted to. 

Once on hormones, I've become asexual.  But I'm beginning to get glimmers that men might be nice to have around.  I still haven't run into one who attracts me, though.  Stay tuned...

- Kate

I've not noticed any increased desire for men in the 11 months on HRT, if anything I'd say I find them more repulsive but that's probably because they hit on me now.

Quote from: Nero on June 03, 2009, 03:47:32 PM
Women in general seem to have more fluid orientations. Women seem to be more likely to be bi than men or at least more likely to experiment. Then again, female hormones have a powerful effect on sense of smell and men smell good.

Are you sure?? I frequently find myself resisting the urge to beg them to use deodorant! 

Quote from: Nero on June 03, 2009, 03:47:32 PM
Then again, female hormones have a powerful effect on sense of smell and men smell good.

I have an excellent ability to cook due to in part to my ability to taste and smell different spices.  After HRT men smelled bad to me when they do not bathe.  I asked my wife if I smelled different without HRT.  She said, "Yes.  In the past I smelled like soap and now I smell like female perfume."

These days I really study women.  I examine their hair, jewelry, clothing, make-up, shoes, accessories, and the way they carry themselves!

I have always preferred to talk to women and I still prefer to talk to women.  I have no problem talking to men now or in the past.  I am a chatterbox and I do tend to ask a lot of questions.

I have always enjoyed snuggling.  Now I enjoy it more.  Hugging is nice.

HRT has made me more sensitive but the removal of T has made my need for "sex" to be near zero. 

If circumstances were different I would not rule out anything.

Quote from: Matilda on June 04, 2009, 06:52:29 PM
You are what you are, meaning that you are either born homosexual, heterosexual, bisexual, or asexual. What happens is that growing up some people born transsexual build up large defenses to protect themselves from the outside world. Sometimes these defenses include even going along with how society expects them to act sexually.  I mean, let's face it...to a degree most of us are pretty much in denial before transition, and it is only after we begin to emerge from our "own little bubbles" that we can develop properly in a second, gender-appropriate puberty.

Some people say "it's the hormones that change your sexual orientation"  Is it really?. I don't think it's "the hormones" that do it.  It's us giving ourselves permission to finally be ourselves in our true gender.

I L-O-V-E   loooove this!

I have to say that this was true for me.  I built up a lot of defenses to hide my "true" self.  I remember so many times when I was younger I would get the urge to look at men sexually, and I would force myself not to, and then finally give into the urges. 

I remember when I first started therapy two years ago, I knew where I wanted to go with therapy, but even then I still denied the fact that I was trans.  It took me a year to finally admit to myself what was really going on.  After that, I have never ever been happier.  I am in the best place right now.

Quote from: Matilda on June 04, 2009, 06:52:29 PM

Some people say "it's the hormones that change your sexual orientation"  Is it really?. I don't think it's "the hormones" that do it.  It's us giving ourselves permission to finally be ourselves in our true gender.

As I think back on my life, I have to agree with the last part especially.  During the most intense battles with my GID, I found myself looking at guys and having thoughts.

It came to me that when my ex asked me to just admit I was gay.  I told that "I am not gay".  My orientation is straight, being in that other form I would have been gay, but as a woman I am straight.

I have noting against my sisters who are into women,  it is natural for them.  Just as it is for me to be attracted to men.  Besides love knows no gender as far as I am concerned.

Janet

Quote from: Matilda on June 04, 2009, 06:52:29 PM
A bunch of cool stuff I agree with.

Yeah absolutely. I think culturally though, in America at least, it is becoming allowed and even in some cases encouraged for women to experiment with bisexuality etc. I know frustratingly little of the women's world though from my observation it seems women overall tend to be less homophobic than men (Note I can only talk about high school and college aged kids here as that is where my experience begins and ends).

Lots of guys are petrified of being linked to anything gay, and often overcompensate because you can lose a lot of social standing amongst other guys and girls as well. Even accusations can stick and the ribbing goes on forever because nobody wants to look gay and making fun of the "gay" guy is one surefire way to protect your treasured masculinity.

It's all common sense if you've ever seen it in action or experienced it. I've never seen this to the same degree with women, but that is not to say it doesn't happen at all. I know it does.

I claimed before and still claim to be mostly lesbian.  Kind of lesbian?  Strong leanings toward the female?

But, now that I am full time and have been for quite a bit, I do have to admit that I am much more flexible in my appreciation of human form in all it's glory.

As I've said in other threads, my pretty little head can be turned by a tight butt and broad shoulders, or a curvaceous silhouette.  Regardless of the gender they belong too! 

Personally, I've come to the conclusion that it really doesn't matter.  We put ourselves through a societal blender then wonder if we are gay or straight!  On some level the question is meaningless!  You can take the argumentative position that no matter how you present yourself you can consider yourself simultaneously homosexual and heterosexual.

Who cares!  What matters is your quality of life and the satisfaction of the relationship you have with your partner(s).

Enjoy life!  Love well!  Love often!  Have all the fun you can!

Isn't that one of the main reasons we do this?

-Sandy

QuoteI have been told in other places that sometimes - but not always - a person will find their sexual orientation or desires change once they begin HRT. To wit: a M2F who was very and only attracted to females and not at all sexually interested in men before hormones finds after a time that she has become, at the least, Bi, if not wholly interested in men and little if any interested in women.

Has anyone here had that experience? I hesitate to fully trust the testimony I have had befoe because it often comes from people encountered on more sexually oriented boards and I wonder how much fake/fetishism influences the content.

I would say that is a fairly accurate assessment of my situation.

QuoteI'd day that HRT doesn't change a person's sexual orientation.  That's one of those trans myths that should die in a fire as well.

Before starting HRT, I had not, nor had I ever been attracted to men sexually.  It wasn't closet homophobia - the attraction simply was not there.

Now, well, things have changed.  A lot.  I am at the very least bi, and I'm leaning more towards men.

Matilda wrote,

QuoteSome people say "it's the hormones that change your sexual orientation"  Is it really?. I don't think it's "the hormones" that do it.  It's us giving ourselves permission to finally be ourselves in our true gender.

Matilda I think that statement is brilliant.    However the HRT has had dramatic effects on my brain.  Sometimes I just feel normal and feel good inside. Yes I have suppressed my feelings but HRT makes my feelings feel more alive.  Many times we want to simplify and categorize when we are all very complex and unique.

Sandy wrote,

QuoteWho cares!  What matters is your quality of life and the satisfaction of the relationship you have with your partner(s).
Enjoy life!  Love well!  Love often!  Have all the fun you can!
Isn't that one of the main reasons we do this?

Sandy I love your statement but frankly I am not sure why I do what I do because it is illogical.

Warning: Old post about HRT & sexual orientation and women being born "bisexual".

Quote from: Leslie on January 01, 2009, 01:02:08 AM
I'm really sick of this dumb logic that everybody swings both ways.  Attraction (emotion / mind) is a nontangible energy that cannot be measured so how can they conclude anything without getting into each and every person's head that we're all bisexual?  I bet dollars to donuts it's immature tweens and teens, and maybe some ignorant adults who are saying this because I don't believe for one minute that an intelligent, mature, educated person would make such a sweeping generalisation about the population as a whole.
What's even crazier are those who say that everybody is 'functionally bisexual'! So basically what they are trying to say (or at least what I'm trying to interpret) is that even if one is NOT attracted to both sexes in any way, shape or form, they are bisexual anyway if they are at least capable of it. That's implying potential, which means nothing unless acted upon. It's like saying a window washer is a rock climber simply because the potential is there. This example can also be used for bisexuality. According to their warped thinking, a person is bisexual if the potential is there. Totally false! They can use the stupid potential argument all they want, but if one is not wired to be bi, they will never be bi!
Functional bisexuality has nothing to do with emotional (mind-based) attractions stemming from the brain. A non-bisexual person may be able to position him/herself in a bisexual scenario from a mechanical standpoint but if the dual attraction is not felt from the deepest, inner core of their being, they are not bisexual!
So although I've never lusted after women in my life, according to these shallow brains, I'm bisexual? What a joke. I know I'm not lying to myself. And if they think so, that's their problem. Maybe they should worry about their own lives which must be empty and miserable.  why, oh, why does it concern them so much who is bisexual and who is not? It's none of their business. They are dumber than a bunch of bricks & I stand by that notion. Sorry but it needs to be said.

I agree with Matilda.  HRT doesn't change sexual orientation.  Like her, I've always been straight & can't imagine myself with another woman.