Angsty rambling warning.  Just need to get this off my chest.

This past weekend I went roadtripping with my grandfather to visit my aunt and younger cousins (one cousin just graduated high school, so we came to congratulate her/set up for her party).  I've always been pretty tight with my cousins, even though they're 5 and 7 years younger than me.  I'm also very close with my grandfather; always did things together--working outside in the woods, watching ball games, shooting pool--that always felt more like typical grandfather-grandson bonding than, y'know, me being grandpa's little princess or something. 

My grandfather doesn't know about me and he isn't finding out any time soon (just lost his wife, died in his arms suddenly and painfully, they were together nearly sixty years and did everything together, so he's torn up about it--not a good time).  My dad told him... I dunno, some bull line about my 'period' being off and that's why my voice is so deep.  My aunt knows the truth; my dad had to tell her the real reason why I wasn't at my grandmother's funeral, the real reason that he had to say to me "I don't want you to come."  My cousins... I doubt they know the full truth, but they didn't question my voice.  I get the feeling my aunt gave them the same line about my 'period.'  Ha, right.

Before leaving, I am berated by my father and grandfather for not bringing 'nice' clothes for the party.  Both offer to buy me a 'nice blouse and a skirt.'  They know better than to offer a dress, though I know they'd like to see me in one; it was a waterfall of compliments the very last time I consented to wearing one.  Lately my grandfather has been pushing me to dress more femininely; he never used to do that, unlike the rest of my family--part of the reason I've always felt more comfortable with the guy.  I don't know what's changed with him...

Flash forward to the graduation party.  Mostly consists of my cousin's family on her dad's side, so no relation to me.  Most have never met me.  I am introduced by my aunt as her neice; didn't expect anything different from her, even if she knows about me.  I am introduced by my cousins as {feminine full birthname}; still don't expect anything different because they don't know.  The few people I am not introduced to, I say I am {gender-ambivalent shortened birthname}.  They all assume I am male; they refer to me as 'he' in front of my cousins; call me 'your nephew' in front of my aunt.  When corrected to say 'she' and 'neice,' they look highly confused.  My cousin's dad walks up to the table where my cousin and I am conversing with her aunt.  He clearly doesn't recognize me; he always used to greet me with a loud "hi, {feminine birthname}!", even when we hadn't seen each other for years  (he and my aunt went through a nasty divorce, so I don't see him much).  He doesn't have a clue who I am, I see the confusion in his eyes when I say 'hi' as if I know him.  And I cannot bear uttering the name that would make him recognize me.

A night of profound awkwardness.  I retreated inside the house, away from most of the guests, to down some beer.  The few guests who do see me drinking look shocked; I can imagine why.  I still hear my aunt's words before we left, that I am a 'fine young lady.' 

Goddamn, will my family ever think of me as anything else?  I know it takes time for them to digest, but...  I know their extreme stubbornness.  If they don't want to see or acknowledge something, they absolutely will not.  I am shocked by how much this affects me.  I tell myself to suck it down, that it doesn't matter.  When I'm around them, I tell myself that I am invulnerable to pain, that emotion is weakness.  It helped me get by when I lived with them; I'm still rather shocked when I am reminded how incredibly numb I used to be.  It's only when I go back home--and away from them--that I come to my senses.  It always takes me a few days to get my bearing again.

Sorry, Eryk, it can be tough having different people at different speeds on your transition.

I never re-introduced myself to people using my old name.
You can remind them of events, e.g. "My name is Eryk now and we went fishing five years ago at East Lake and caught a big catfish."
You can even have a helpful friend whisper the hated name in their ear.

Quote from: Renate on June 08, 2009, 07:51:49 PM
You can remind them of events, e.g. "My name is Eryk now and we went fishing five years ago at East Lake and caught a big catfish."

I like it.  Would work on acquaintances I haven't seen in awhile, at least.  I've found they tend to remember faces or what you did together, rather than names.

wow... thats a little more than effed up.  i dont see how your "period being off" could cause anything like the changes that T can do.  theyre all probably thinking youre some sort of hermaphroditic* creature.

*i dont mean "hermaphrodite".  i know that that term has fallen out of use and is sometimes found offensive, i mean in a "spontaneously changing sex" sort of way.  kindof like a clown fish.

Gender whiplash is always draining, isn't it?

Perhaps it's time to stat to come out to your family. You might be able to use this weekend if you get resistance; you can say, "Didn't you notice everyone thought you were a bit crazy when you tried to insist I'm your neice?" I understand if it's not the best time with your grandfather -- but when is?

Quote from: Josh on June 08, 2009, 09:05:18 PM
wow... thats a little more than effed up.  i dont see how your "period being off" could cause anything like the changes that T can do.  theyre all probably thinking youre some sort of hermaphroditic* creature.

Lol, nice.  I dunno, my grandfather would definitely buy it; he doesn't know much about periods.  My cousins would probably be more skeptical, although severe hormone imbalances in females can result in deepening of the voice, hirsutism (excessive body hair), and a whole lot of other things that resemble being on T--at least the early stages.  Oh, and my mom now has more lip fuzz than I do because of menopause.  Yay hormones.  Eh, I get the feeling I'm going to have to wait it out until the changes from T in no way resemble a female hormone imbalance--but even then I think their acceptance of reality is gonna be sketchy.  I can honestly envision them still calling me she as I stand before them with a beard.

Quote from: Alyssa M. on June 08, 2009, 09:23:54 PM
Gender whiplash is always draining, isn't it?

Perhaps it's time to stat to come out to your family. You might be able to use this weekend if you get resistance; you can say, "Didn't you notice everyone thought you were a bit crazy when you tried to insist I'm your neice?" I understand if it's not the best time with your grandfather -- but when is?

I would say it would be time to come out to the family, except they all know--with the exception of my cousins and grandfather--and still insist on calling me she/her/niece/granddaughter/daughter, etc. in public and private.  I visited my grandmother at the nursing home and all of the nurses and residents were exclaiming "Oh! And is this your grandson?" to which my grandmother replied (or just introduced me before they could assume) "This is my granddaughter."  People were looking at her as if she was senile, which she most definitely is not.  My grandfather... yeah, no time is a good time.  I just figured I'd be respectful right after his loss, but the question is--how long is long enough?  I know my dad (his son) would have me putting it off indefinitely...

It's a delicate balancing act between trying to be respectful (aka trying not to lose my family entirely) and not allowing myself to be driven crazy.  Yeah, total whiplash.

That's really tough when not everyone knows.  If you weren't trying to protect your grandfather's feelings you could have come out to your cousins and insisted on proper names, etc., with the rest of your family.  (Embarass them often enough with the ->-bleeped-<- in the family, and maybe they'll decide it's better to to start introducing you as Eryk.  )  On the other hand, I understand that sometimes there are issues in the family that are more important at the time than your transition.  I delayed coming out to my family, in part, so that I wouldn't take attention away from my cousin and his bride at their wedding, for instance.

How long has it been since your grandmother passed away?  (My condolences for your loss, btw.)

I'm confused, which is not unusual, but... if people don't know, how do you expect them to act?  Its very hard for people to do what's expected of them if you have not told them what you expect.  And not vaguely, but directly, to the point and several times.  (the old, tell 'em what you're going to tell 'em, tell 'em, tell 'em what you just told them - 3 seems to be a magic number for remembering).  But you really have to sit down and have 'the talk' and spell it out - point by point.  You are, of course, hyper aware of things that they are paying no attention to, and I wonder if that's because you have not forced them to really pay attention to them?

QuoteLately my grandfather has been pushing me to dress more femininely;

Possibly because you look more manly because of the T.

That does suck mate, I have that same trouble and have decided to stay away from family gatherings period as my parents won't tell them and I don't see why they need to know.

Jay

Quote from: Jamie-o on June 09, 2009, 03:52:22 AM
How long has it been since your grandmother passed away?

Just about a month ago.

Quote from: tekla on June 09, 2009, 09:42:42 AM
I'm confused, which is not unusual, but... if people don't know, how do you expect them to act?  Its very hard for people to do what's expected of them if you have not told them what you expect.  And not vaguely, but directly, to the point and several times.  (the old, tell 'em what you're going to tell 'em, tell 'em, tell 'em what you just told them - 3 seems to be a magic number for remembering).  But you really have to sit down and have 'the talk' and spell it out - point by point.  You are, of course, hyper aware of things that they are paying no attention to, and I wonder if that's because you have not forced them to really pay attention to them?

You have a point; I've really not been pushing the issue with the family members who know about my transition.  I told my parents to call me Eryk, he, etc. when I started T--about a year and a half after I came out to them--but they blatantly refused.  My dad's words were "I will never call you 'Eryk', I will never call you a 'he.'"  It kinda put me off from being insistent; my dad isn't one to be pushed.  I suppose I could try a bit harder with other family members, though.

Quote from: Jay on June 09, 2009, 03:34:01 PM
Possibly because you look more manly because of the T.

Lol, the thought had crossed my mind.

QuoteMy dad's words were "I will never call you 'Eryk', I will never call you a 'he.'"

And you'll just have to motion like you're drinking with an eye roll, implying he's a drunk, or shake your head and look away, like he's senile, esp. after there is no question that you're male.  They're gonna look at him funny, not you, esp. if you grow facial hair.

And, if that doesn't work, then you can drop the "Dad, calling me 'she' could get me killed!"  Which is true in some places and circumstances.

Maybe then it will sink in.


Jay

Quote from: Jay on June 09, 2009, 03:34:01 PM
Possibly because you look more manly because of the T.

I think Jay has probably hit the nail on the head here! And it could also be that your grandfather is trying to push you into telling him. If the two of you used to be close when you were a lot smaller, it might be that he's well aware of the situation, and is just waiting for you to tell him. Grandparents may be old, but they're not (all) stupid!

Eryk, I don't know how old you are, but once you're an adult you don't have to do everything your parents say. If I was in your situation, I'd tell my parents that I felt that it was unfair to keep some members of my family, who I care about, in the dark about my transition, and that I was going to tell them exactly what was going on. I'd also point out, as others have mentioned, that strangers see me as male, and to be introduced as their daughter will make people think that they are senile - as you are very obviouslsy male.

I know you say it doesn't matter to you, but it obviously does. Maybe it's time to bite the bullet and do the big coming out to all the family thing - by email, by letter, in person - whatever works best for you. I'd guess that after last weekend people are already wondering anyway - my view is that it's better to be upfront about it all and avoid being the susbject of gossip.

Good luck mate!

Quote from: sneakersjay on June 09, 2009, 06:07:40 PM
And you'll just have to motion like you're drinking with an eye roll, implying he's a drunk, or shake your head and look away, like he's senile, esp. after there is no question that you're male.  They're gonna look at him funny, not you, esp. if you grow facial hair.

Haha, nice.  That's already happening (I do the *shake head and look away*).  But maybe I am still straddling the gender line, because people tend to 'correct' themselves after my father (or anyone else) 'corrects' them.  They just look at me weird.

Quote from: Flameboy on June 10, 2009, 01:24:17 PM
I think Jay has probably hit the nail on the head here! And it could also be that your grandfather is trying to push you into telling him. If the two of you used to be close when you were a lot smaller, it might be that he's well aware of the situation, and is just waiting for you to tell him. Grandparents may be old, but they're not (all) stupid!

Lol, I wish I could believe that my grandfather somehow expects it.  The thing is, I cannot imagine how he could have been really exposed to transsexuality--even in his 80 years of life.  A brief snippet on the television, perhaps--maybe he caught something of Thomas Beattie--but...  to be quite honest, no one in my family suspected a thing.  That's what they said, at least.  They have all lived in the same very small, conservative, Catholic town for all of their lives; there's not much exposure to *anything* in the world outside of television and now the computer.  Hell, I didn't even have a word for what I was growing up; all I knew was that I wanted my breasts and reproductive organs removed because they just seemed wrong.  I saw Discovery channel programs on MtFs and felt a mix of... belonging and jealousy, I guess.  I didn't know that I could do the same as them, but in the opposite direction.  I had never seen a program that dealt with FtMs.  It took going to college and meeting not an MtF, but an FtM for it to start to sink in.  Anyways, yeah (forgive my rambling, it helps me to put my scattered thoughts in to words)...  with little to no exposure to transsexuality, I don't know how he could possibly suspect, despite my behavior as a child: let's just say my rejection of anything even remotely feminine throughout my childhood and now adulthood has been a serious point of contention in my family.

Quote from: Flameboy on June 10, 2009, 01:24:17 PM
Eryk, I don't know how old you are, but once you're an adult you don't have to do everything your parents say. If I was in your situation, I'd tell my parents that I felt that it was unfair to keep some members of my family, who I care about, in the dark about my transition, and that I was going to tell them exactly what was going on. I'd also point out, as others have mentioned, that strangers see me as male, and to be introduced as their daughter will make people think that they are senile - as you are very obviouslsy male.

...so is it sad that I am an adult?  23, out of the house, not dependent on my parents' money.  And still I hesitate telling my grandfather because in all honesty I cannot stand to hurt the man.  It seems this is a recurring theme with me; given the choice of hurting someone I care about or sheltering them and bearing the consequences (in this case, pain and awkwardness)... I'll shelter them because I insist I can do it.  I cannot think of how telling him will accomplish anything except making me feel better, so I play the bloody martyr.  So if that's my decision, I shouldn't be complaining about it--except that it's coming back to bite me in the rear.  I'm now starting to resent the man that I idolized throughout my youth.  I resent it every time he implies that I should act more femininely.  I resent his ignorance of me, and I have no one else to blame but myself because I'm the one who decided to say nothing.  Of course I can override my parents' wishes and tell him, but in the end it's not my parents wishes I'm worried about.  It's him.  His wife's death has brought him down low.  The first time he cracked a half smile, looked halfway interested in still living, was when he heard that I had changed my summer plans so that I could spend a month with him.  I'm just afraid of what this could do to him when he hears the news...  I keep hearing that, to our loved ones, transition seems almost like a death and they must mourn the person they lost.  How can I lay another 'death' on him?

And I will confess that I do fear his rejection.  When my grandmother (other side of the family--not his wife) found out, she refused to speak with me.  Then she wound up in the hospital in pretty nasty condition (stress-related, and not too long after she found out about me).  Not a great feeling to know that a loved one might die and to also know that they don't wish to hear from you.  It's an awkward decision--do I say to hell with it and call them, even if it may stress them more?--or do I respect their wishes and just live with it if they die with us still not on speaking terms?  Thankfully, my grandmother and I are back on speaking terms... her conclusion was "you're still my granddaughter, still {birthname}."  And so her terms are clear: she'll speak with me, but only as her granddaughter and only as {birthname}; she thinks wanting to be called 'he' and by a male name is ridiculous and refuses to do so.  So what did my disclosure really gain?  She refused to talk with me, I (and probably she) stressed about it for a few months, and it's back where it was before--except now there's a decent amount of active denial thrown in.  I know I can't predict how my grandfather will react, but this is how every member of my family has reacted thus far.  Lord knows if they'll ever change their decision on name and pronouns.  I could gently beat 'em over the head with reminders, as Tekla said, but I'm not sure if our now tenuous relationship could withstand it...

Quote from: Flameboy on June 10, 2009, 01:24:17 PM
I know you say it doesn't matter to you, but it obviously does. Maybe it's time to bite the bullet and do the big coming out to all the family thing - by email, by letter, in person - whatever works best for you. I'd guess that after last weekend people are already wondering anyway - my view is that it's better to be upfront about it all and avoid being the susbject of gossip.

Yeah, the bullet must be bitten some time.  It's just deciding when... when will this new knowledge do the least amount of damage to my grandfather?  How long after a death is 'long enough'?  He's never going to really stop grieving for his wife, missing her... so it's a matter of judging what time will yield the least damage.  Before I spend a month with him, so I have more time to explain and so he can get used to it with me there?  After, so he can spend the following four months stewing it over before I see him again on Thanksgiving?  A year from now (eh, prolly stretching it)?

As for the awkward party guests--with the exception of my uncle, two cousins, and grandfather--they are not directly my relatives.  I had never met them before in my life; I doubt there's much gossiping going on.  My cousins might be marginally confused my my refusal to "correct" anyone who said 'he,' though. 

Ah, but listen to me ramble...  I suppose I'll stop for now.  Thanks for the input, everyone.  I do appreciate it; helps me mull things over and face up to the really nerve-wracking reality of coming (all the way) out.

Tell your grandfather. He doesn't have to understand transsexuality.
He just has to understand that this will make you happy.

I have a dear friend, over 80 and in poor health.
Everybody tried to talk me out of telling her. I finally did anyway.
No, I don't think that she "understands", but she is happy for me.
She is 100% on target with my name and pronouns.

I came out to my grandfather and his brother and his wife.  All are well into their 80s.  My Aunt had known and worked with a transwoman in the past, and all were accepting.  Don't discount the old people.  I've found that my older relatives (in their 70s +) have all been the  most accepting.


Jay

Funny how it is that older people seem to be so much better with pronouns. I think perhaps it's just part of the grace and compassion and self-control that comes with age.

Eryk, while you say that you are avoiding telling your grandfather in order to protect his feelings I suspect (from what else you wrote and from my own experience dealing with similar situations) that you are really just plain scared -- you said yourself you are afraid of his rejection. But not telling him is forcing him to reject you (as you see right now, with him giving you pressure to act in a more feminine manner, which is rejection even if he doesn't intend it that way), and it doesn't really shield his feelings. If he is to eventually find out, then sooner is better than later. And if he never finds out, then he'll never get to meet his grandson.

Of course, I should take my own advice. 

I was always a "tomboy" as a kid, hated dresses, loved baseball/football/hockey etc., etc.  My mom gave me a book on transgendered folks when I was 17, and I never looked back.  At the time, I had three living grandparents, who all were very supportive of my process (though I told none of them personally, that duty was taken on by my folks). My relatives took a bit of getting around to using the proper pronouns.  I had a scheduled date for an official name change, and I allowed family/friends/etc. to call me by my given name until that date, at which point I would no longer answer to anything else.  They got the point or they got out of my life. 

I feel ya. I'm always on edge when out with the family, just waiting for someone to mention sister or she or something that could cause confusion. Thankfully, I've been able to keep my family away from the rest of my world, and no confusion has occurred but it's certainly a paranoid experience going out together.

As for meeting people who knew me only before transition, I just pretend I don't know them, and everything works out fine. I do try to make an effort to re-meet them however, but I'm careful to make as if I'd never met them before in my life. And if I'm unable to re-meet them, alas, move on, make new friends.