This is something I haven't learned how to deal with yet, and it's crushing.  Today I went to a pride festival - ok, I don't pass and I'm not exactly expecting to blend in here, especially being at a booth that one of the support groups I go to had set up, but still.  The number of times I heard things like "so which of you are real girls?" made my head spin.  We're all real dammit!
What bothers me about this is maybe I'm being "accepted" but it's being accepted as a transsexual, not accepted as a woman.  I understand that's more a symptom of not passing, and it's better than not being accepted at all, I guess.  But it's a constant reminder that I'm something other than a woman, even in the eyes of the generally more open-minded queer community.
Do you let things like this bother you?  How do you manage those type of situations?

The world was not created for me. Something is good for me, and other thing is bad for me. Some people call me lady or even girl, but others dad or sir. Some people treat me very well, and others not. All women meet the same problem. This is the world, whatever you are: man, woman, transsexual, dad or mom, rich and poor, black and white... Your problem is not so much unique, but you may try to enhance it, IMHO.

Barbie~~

I don't really care how they view me as long as they treat me as a woman.  Even if it were a second class woman.  It will change in time, I think.

Janet

Quote from: Janet Lynn on June 06, 2009, 08:26:15 PM
I don't really care how they view me as long as they treat me as a woman.  Even if it were a second class woman.  It will change in time, I think.

Janet

One of my biggest barriers to accepting myself was my appearance, and my fear that no one will ever see me as "real" even if they do gender me as female.  Maybe it bothers me so much right now because it takes a lot of fake things for me to look acceptable to myself.  Hearing someone indirectly call me a fake or an impostor really hurts, it makes me feel inadequate in a lot of ways.  It feels like they're treating my own identity as invalid, or implying that I shouldn't expect the same experience a "real" person would have.

I don't believe the people saying these things were saying them with the intention to be rude or demeaning, I think it was probably curiosity, but that's not the point.  I forget who posted it here, but I remember reading someone's blog about how a person came up to her at a party and said "you had me fooled!"  Well that's a completely terrible thing to hear.  They didn't mean any harm, but they are implying that we're not just trying to live our lives, we're putting everyone on and trying to trick people for some unknown reason.  I have better things to do than try to trick people, that's kind of the whole reason I knew I needed to transition.  I was beyond tired of always trying to convince everyone I was a guy, it was the last thing I wanted to do.

I agree, I think things will get better in time, but I don't know how to react to it now without getting upset with them and then cementing whatever misconceptions they might have.

A good response that I have found that works for me, comes from the younger girls.  "Whatever", along with the correct hand signs.  Upheld hand with the three middle fingers held up and then turn it to the side.

I have many female friends, and I mostly go out for lunch with female colleagues here. Although they know I am a dad, they seem to feel more comfortable at me than other men. Even some women change their underwear in front of me.

Adults are fine, but kids and my children is a concern. Today morning, kids in a minivan at my apartment jeered at me, probably talking about me. That is fine, as they are kids. But, I worry about my little daughter at their age. Probably they can tease my daughter at playground. I already touch such tinge. Fortunately, my daughter is very aggressive at her age, probably refutating comments from their play mates. Yesterday, she tried to apply lipstick of my wife to my lip.

In your case, MGKeely, women tend to be more symphathetic to you, although there could be exceptions. You may socialize with them more, talking your agony to them. In my case, female colleagues have been my big supporter.

Barbie~~

Mine also, Barbie.  I have a girlfriend at work that is very supportive, as is most of the women I work with.  Women seem to 'understand' us for some reason.  While guys can get rather aggressive towards us.

Maybe it is we have joined the 'other side'.  I don't know.  But find who you can talk to and discuss it with them.  They may have already been there and have some advise.

Janet

It is hard when you are trying to pass but can't.  Many people I see every day knew me when I had a beard, so I got to the point where I didn't care if I pass.  Some people, I can tell they think I'm a woman.  Some people, it's obvious they read me.  Most people I can't tell.  I just want them to treat me as human, and so far everyone does.

It helps, I think, if you just relax into it.  You are you, whatever that may be.

To me, "Which one of you is real?" is very rude.  I can only assume it was a young person.  If you can reply with humor, it will help you cope.

The other day I was talking to a waiter I've known for years.  I was telling him I had electrolysis that day, so that's why I was whiskery.  He said "So you're going for the whole thing, huh?"  I said yes.  Then he said "So those boobs are real?"  I had to laugh and told him "Not yet.  I'll let you know when they are."  He told me I had a lot of gumption to go through this.

Hang in there.  Maintain your gumption.

- Kate

You the same MG Kelli  from AT 40?

The world was not created for me.

QFT

Quote from: Janet Lynn on June 06, 2009, 09:33:42 PM
A good response that I have found that works for me, comes from the younger girls.  "Whatever", along with the correct hand signs.  Upheld hand with the three middle fingers held up and then turn it to the side.

I would laugh my ass off if I ever saw someone over the age of twelve doing that. 

Just so I can make your night, Mister
What..........

Ever


Janet

I'm with you Janet, if you get the 'whatever' with just the right mix of ridicule, loathing and casualness its a great word.

Thanks for that, Janet.

I've found that a lot of people within the gay community (read: middle aged, middle class, out, white men) seem to think that every trans person is out and if they're not, they're just not comfortable enough with themselves to be out of the closet yet.

Most women are nice to me. But some act like I'm invading on their territory. Especially if a guy notices me rather than them  Also I live in a rather religious area and so some just think I'm evil 

ROTFL Janet, I use the "What ever" also 

Quote from: Virginia Marie on June 08, 2009, 11:25:16 PM
Most women are nice to me. But some act like I'm invading on their territory. Especially if a guy notices me rather than them  Also I live in a rather religious area and so some just think I'm evil 

ROTFL Janet, I use the "What ever" also 

I also had similar experiences. A few women overreacted to my crossdressing, condemning me more fierecely than some men. Those women can vary: some are very interested in their own beauty, others seem to just give up. I do not know well the reason.

However, one woman at my age once criticized my crossdressing, but later she praised some aspect of my physical appearance. She later said she is just so much outspoken, and nowadays she greets me with a big smile. She looks rather young and beautiful at her age, except her conspicuous pot. She said she has delivered 2 babies and asked me to consider it.

Barbie~~

I had a similar thing at Mardi Gras fair day, they were handing out flyers to a lesbian night and gave them to everyone in my group except me. It was a bummer, not just for the fact of being left out but for the reminder of how easily she spotted me.

Most girls don't seem to share that attitude though, or at least they don't make it so obvious.

Quote from: MGKelly on June 06, 2009, 06:50:50 PM
This is something I haven't learned how to deal with yet, and it's crushing.  Today I went to a pride festival - ok, I don't pass and I'm not exactly expecting to blend in here, especially being at a booth that one of the support groups I go to had set up, but still.  The number of times I heard things like "so which of you are real girls?" made my head spin.  We're all real dammit!
What bothers me about this is maybe I'm being "accepted" but it's being accepted as a transsexual, not accepted as a woman.  I understand that's more a symptom of not passing, and it's better than not being accepted at all, I guess.  But it's a constant reminder that I'm something other than a woman, even in the eyes of the generally more open-minded queer community.
Do you let things like this bother you?  How do you manage those type of situations?

The "acceptance" thing is an issue that will be with you always.  Not everyone will accept you as a woman and no matter how well you pass it's often very difficult to change the way people think, if not impossible.  And heck why should they change after all who are we to them.  There will always be those who feel that if you weren't born a woman you can never be one and that's their problem not ours.

In the beginning many TS have difficulty passing after all there is a lot to learn, lots of preparation, lots of mistakes.  In the end determination to be who you are regardless of the views and opinions of others will overcome many of the obstacles but acceptance may never be there.

While the Queer community may be a safe place to hang out, unless you are gay/lesbian I would recommend to seek other venues.  I remember when I took the first steps of my transition I too sought out the GLB community and while it served it's purpose it was not me, I wasn't a lesbian I was/am a hetro woman.  Ah but that's me...

While we can do a lot towards being accepted I feel it's a thing that is given.

-={LR}=-

I so agree LR.  I am Bi, with leanings towards straight.  I prefer straight places over the gay scene.  After all I want a b/f who is straight.  There is nothing wrong with gay men, but I am not one of them, I am a woman.  Ere go I want a man who is straight.

JMHO
Janet

Quote from: Ladyrider on June 10, 2009, 09:56:56 AM
The "acceptance" thing is an issue that will be with you always.  Not everyone will accept you as a woman and no matter how well you pass it's often very difficult to change the way people think, if not impossible.  And heck why should they change after all who are we to them.  There will always be those who feel that if you weren't born a woman you can never be one and that's their problem not ours.

Reasonable and realistic.

People are surprised at my kids. They usually think I am a feminine, queer single. They have difficulty in being adjusted to my image as a dad. But, once clearly recognizing I am a dad, they treat me like just a feminine dad with a kind of motherhood .

Barbie~~