Now, doesn't that just put the whole problem into a more terrifying light?

No, it puts it in this light.  Where people have worked to change the law, it has been changed.  Where they bitch and moan, nothing happens.  Same as it ever was.

Face it, 95% of the people were pretty useless anyway.  I used to have a theory that the same 100 people made things happen in their sphere, so, for example, if there is a big concert in SF, I'm going to know most of the people there.  Because we are the people who have always put on these shows.  Same with political stuff.

Same for almost anything... after almost 30 years in my field I run into (sometimes by collaboration, sometimes by competition) the same handful of people...

Question is, at what point to the 95% ever make a difference? Watching the events unfolding in Iran, with the unwashed masses protesting and the numbers rising... makes you wonder. What spark does it take to make the 95% more vocal than the 100 people who usually make the spotlight?

I also have to wonder after reading through the posts here... can someone calmly explain what is the reason why some seem so bothered if the "wrong" person shows up in the public multi-stalled bathroom of a particular gender? Please dont quote laws or "its obvious"... what I am asking is what is it in your gut that feels so uncomfortable? Why does this personally bother you? I am just trying to understand...

Quote from: Stacy Brahm on June 23, 2009, 03:35:21 PM
Same for almost anything... after almost 30 years in my field I run into (sometimes by collaboration, sometimes by competition) the same handful of people...

Question is, at what point to the 95% ever make a difference? Watching the events unfolding in Iran, with the unwashed masses protesting and the numbers rising... makes you wonder. What spark does it take to make the 95% more vocal than the 100 people who usually make the spotlight?

I also have to wonder after reading through the posts here... can someone calmly explain what is the reason why some seem so bothered if the "wrong" person shows up in the public multi-stalled bathroom of a particular gender? Please dont quote laws or "its obvious"... what I am asking is what is it in your gut that feels so uncomfortable? Why does this personally bother you? I am just trying to understand...

I wouldn't mind at all, I'd say "Oh, hi, this is the boys bathroom, for your information." I wouldn't care if she stayed there or went to the bathroom in there, in fact, it would be kinda nice to see another girl in there.

Quote from: Stacy Brahm on June 23, 2009, 03:35:21 PM

I also have to wonder after reading through the posts here... can someone calmly explain what is the reason why some seem so bothered if the "wrong" person shows up in the public multi-stalled bathroom of a particular gender? Please dont quote laws or "its obvious"... what I am asking is what is it in your gut that feels so uncomfortable? Why does this personally bother you? I am just trying to understand...

That's what I'd like to know too.  And I'd really like to know why it bothers people that <gasp!> transpeople who pass actually use the restrooms of their chosen gender...creeps people out that we may be right there at the urinal.  Why do you care, esp. if I pass?

Jay

Quote from: Stacy Brahm on June 23, 2009, 03:35:21 PM
I also have to wonder after reading through the posts here... can someone calmly explain what is the reason why some seem so bothered if the "wrong" person shows up in the public multi-stalled bathroom of a particular gender? Please dont quote laws or "its obvious"... what I am asking is what is it in your gut that feels so uncomfortable? Why does this personally bother you? I am just trying to understand...

It's not you that has to understand.

It's the rest of the world that has to grow up!

I've been to a couple of gay/lesbian gala events and the restrooms were non-gendered.  Boys and girls together in the same room at the same time going potty.

The boys, if they were of a mind stood at the urinal.  I mean come on, they had their backs to the world!  Everyone else used the stalls.  A guy went into the stall next to me.  BFD...  We came out at the same time and smiled at each other.

It was considered polite do "adjust" yourself or straighten your dress privately.

Oddly, I felt completely unthreatened.

And if you ever watched BSG you'll know that the bathrooms on a battle star were non-gendered.

-Sandy

That sounds pretty nifty Sandy.

It's pretty much the same solution to the entire problem: get a new system.

As long as there's two restrooms labeled, "male," and, "female," then there will always be room for discrimination.

Quote from: Toni on June 23, 2009, 04:05:02 PM
As long as there's two restrooms labeled, "male," and, "female," then there will always be room for discrimination.

Could not agree with you more.

Quote from: Toni on June 23, 2009, 04:05:02 PM
That sounds pretty nifty Sandy.

It's pretty much the same solution to the entire problem: get a new system.

As long as there's two restrooms labeled, "male," and, "female," then there will always be room for discrimination.

I disagree. There are many practical reasons for gendered restrooms. However for pre-op transsexual that presents female should be allowed to use women's restroom. For post-ops it should be natural or it is pure discrimination. I cannot find any other reasons for her arguments that being mean against gender-variant people. But pathetically she is part of those people too. It is kind of choice be ubermann or transition. You do not get both.

Whatever, Darklady.  The system is messed up and it can't be fixed for us really.

This is the thread that doesn't end...Yes it goes on and on my friend...Some people started posting here, not knowing what it was, and they'll just keep on posting here forever just because....

Probably because its the only place where there is a forced contact in a intimate situation with the general public.  It's the only place where other people have a legitimate right to have their 'rights' thought about and considered also.

Quote from: Kara on June 23, 2009, 05:25:24 PM
This is the thread that doesn't end...Yes it goes on and on my friend...Some people started posting here, not knowing what it was, and they'll just keep on posting here forever just because....

Yes, Lamb Chop, I totally agree.

Quote from: Nichole on June 23, 2009, 06:29:00 PM
Yes, Lamb Chop, I totally agree.

So.......why not slam the bathroom door on this one, Nicky?  It's gone waaay overdue.....

Oh yeah ending debate solves the problem, just ask the mullahs in Iran.

Quote from: Miss Bev on June 23, 2009, 06:44:14 PM

So.......why not slam the bathroom door on this one, Nicky?  It's gone waaay overdue.....

The fact that I see circles and more circles isn't unusual around either Susan's or any other Forum I have ever been a part of. The same topics recur and the usual suspects can generally be found doing the usual thing.

But, despite the fact that most of it has been said, imo, and the lines are pretty well-drawn as to who believes what there is nothing in the thread that merits locking it.

As usual this thread will die when no one has anything further to say in it.

I find that the best way to opt out is to opt out and leave the conversation to others who desire to have or continue it. When they are done, the thread will go quiet as all of them eventually do -- or someone will start a new thread as this one acculmulates pages: "The Bathroom Debate Continued - Who's Rights Matter Most".

There's no flames at the moment and no need to close the thread. That's not my place without there being good reason. I see no good reason to do so and a few good ones to allow people to say what they want to say within the TOS.

The thread stays open.

N~

Quote from: tekla on June 23, 2009, 06:46:02 PM
Oh yeah ending debate solves the problem, just ask the mullahs in Iran.

That is so..........what's the word?
Oh, heck, lemme out the ladies room door of this thread.  I'll wash my hands.

*thud*

To answer Toni, I don't have any pics stored in this PC. The one with all my pics crashed. The pics were on floppies and this laptop doesn't do floppies. I could post a drawing of Jane Fonda as Barbarella. Actually, I am a very large man . I look like Paul Sorvino and I live in a basement across from Yankee Stadium. I only pretend to be TS as a project to get my GED. I have not even decided to cross-dress as I would need the courage to go to Yankee Stadium in a mini-skirt to root for Derek Jeter.

Quote from: xsocialworker on June 23, 2009, 07:06:54 PM
To answer Toni, I don't have any pics stored in this PC. The one with all my pics crashed. The pics were on floppies and this laptop doesn't do floppies. I could post a drawing of Jane Fonda as Barbarella. Actually, I am a very large man . I look like Paul Sorvino and I live in a basement across from Yankee Stadium. I only pretend to be TS as a project to get my GED. I have not even decided to cross-dress as I would need the courage to go to Yankee Stadium in a mini-skirt to root for Derek Jeter.

Interesting story you have there, XSW!!

Now the thread's interesting again.

Of course pitchers in the American League wear skirts cause they can throw at people without the fear of ever coming to bat themselves. American league pitchers are allowed to use the female bathroom in National League stadiums.