Hi Allyssa!

QuoteI don't say that because I think anybody disagrees, nor to refute anyone's arguments, but only because I think that fact sometimes get lost in the questioning of the victim's decisions. In other words, there are perhaps lessons to be learned, but compassion should always come first.

Yes, it is very easy to forget the victim and try to affix blame over fixing the real problem. Sometimes we get swept up into the vortex of a topic (this applies to me, guilty as charged ) to the point that what is of paramount concern (in this case her life) is easily cast aside in order to argue for issues that are none the less important. Any person caught in the horrifying situation as she was, should never be made to look at fault for their experience.

Good to talk with you!


Dawn

Ok, to answer a few responses here. First, Alyssa's response of Phoenix not being a "real city" is a bit childish and irrelevant. By definition Phoenix is a city and the 5th largest one in the country. People can certainly have differences of opinions on the quality of the city and ways in which it differs for better or worse than other cities. That's not the point here.

The actual topic is about a crime victim who was brutally attacked because she was trans. It has been clearly noted that she was walking home alone late at night. I'm not familiar with that city so I don't know what that particular street or neighborhood was really like.

Anyway, most people here argue that while yes you have a right to walk down the street, using street smarts you may consider avoiding it altogether. I never said that anyone should unnecessarily put themselves in harm's way. If an individual does not feel comfortable doing something, they shouldn't do it. I also don't think people should put themselves in harm's way just because they can.

The point that people in general are missing here is that we don't know all of the circumstances. There are reasons people do things. Even if it doesn't apply to this girl, it could apply to the next. The girl may not have had money for a cab, may not have had a car, and may not have had any friends who could go with her. She may have had just enough money to afford one drink at the club and that was it and I don't think that being poor should prevent someone from ever having a little bit of entertainment when they can. She may have lived in that neighborhood and if not, the same could apply to the next girl. It is a little ridiculous to argue that someone can't or shouldn't walk in their own neighborhood. Can they move to a better one? Maybe, unless they can't afford to. She may have been walking there for a reason expecting to meet someone she knew around the next corner. She may have thought it was safe only to realize it wasn't.

The point here is that it is easy to stereotype and make blanket statements that someone "shouldn't put themselves in harm's way" but it isn't always all that simple. You don't always know what a place is like before you get there.

Third, poverty is something that is routinely ignored when scrutinizing the decision-making of transgender victims. A lot of t-girls are thrown out of their parents' homes, have no jobs, and no money. If they make the right choices in life then I believe they have a good chance of getting on their feet. The economy may be bad but there is still opportunity. However, few people get out of bad fixes instantly. If you have money, you can afford a taxi from your fancy condominium to a fancy club and back. You can afford to be around friends who also have money just like you who could pick you up and bring you back should you not be able to drive. If you have tons of money, you can afford bodyguards and even limousines. People who don't have money live in bad neighborhoods, have just enough to afford dive bars which are often filled with crime, and either walk or take mass transit (which they still have to walk to). Most of these people don't have computers nor can afford internet which is why you won't find them represented here at Susan's or anywhere else for that matter. It is easy for us "sheltered" people to argue that one should make wiser decisions but those people who have the same rights to "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness" as we do sadly don't have as many options.

So before blaming the victim, let's look at the big picture here.

I'm sorry but Phoenix? Safe?
Someone needs to read the news more.

I'm with Tekla to a point on this. You need to be aware and know the dangerous areas  of your town/city. If you know what to look for, it's not very hard to tell if you are in a bad area (usually).

I have lived in one of the worst gang cities in the U.S., drove delivery in another, and been through a few others (San Bernardino, Compton, East St. Louis...). I also lived in Phoenix and Mesa, while relatively safe in some places, there are others you don't go through in Phoenix.  Mesa/Phoenix/Tempe is a haven for other dangers as well. There are streets in many of the cities I mentioned that even cops will not go into without lots and lots of backup. You want to take a gun? Unless you have a tank, you're outgunned, trust me.



After having lived in these places...
The safest way, is to know the area, watch yourself, and RUN.
Avoiding or getting out of a bad situation before it escalates is the best way to survive. If you think a gun is helping, if it is to the point that you need a gun, you are already in way over your head.

Is it foolproof? Nothing ever is.
Having something like that on you, makes you  brave stupid. You will not back down as fast as you should or avoid confrontations. Many, many people are shot or stabbed by their own weapons because they either couldn't actually bring themselves to use it, or they were not skilled enough with it to do any good.

Take a self defense course, they are a good idea, however, take one that stresses evasion and escape.  You are no match for thugs, gun or no gun.



Keep in mind, most people who do this sort of thing NEVER do it when it is a fair fight.

Quote from: Britney_413 on July 04, 2009, 11:13:48 PMFirst, Alyssa's response of Phoenix not being a "real city" is a bit childish and irrelevant.

Well, then you understood me perfectly well. Frankly, I think whatever non-Queens place you might live has basically nothing to do with this very sad story. The population living within an arbitrary civic boundary in Arizona has even less to do with it. If the manner in which I responded seeemed childish to you, it's probably because I just thought the whole argument was rather childish and irrelevant to begin with.

25 years ago my wife and I were camping on the banks of the Pentecost River in the Northern Territory (NT) a not quite state in Australia. We were about 200kms from Derby using a very bad 4WD track only. About 100kms from the nearest hard top road in the opposite direction. So pretty isolated. During the month we had two visitors, a group of Aborigines who crashed their car in the ford. Pulled them out and was told in return the secret Aboriginal way to catch Barramundi. (ask).

And a white guy who had got a flat battery in his 4WD (fool), he happened to live two streets away in my home town. 6 degrees of freedom.

We left. One year later a crazy German tourist (no racial offence meant or implied) went on a killing spree with high power weapons. Watching the News report he killed two people at the exact (?) spot we had camped at. Blew their heads of from 500m. No where is safe. Just live.

Cindy

After reading the news story and the posts here, Im thinking maybe theres a subtle point being missed here...

Arguing about criminal activity is beside the point... this was a targeted crime, and not one of robbery or rape. If you look at this woman's picture, she would easily pass as a GG, especially on a dark street at 230a. The assailants beat her and called her fa**ot. That would imply that they knew her... if thats the case, no place in any city would be safe, and time of day or night would have little to do with what happened.

BTW, there are far worse places that Roosevelt Ave in Queens. Ya'll make it sound like its a war zone. Having lived in Queens for the last 20+ years and having been all over the borough (as well as all over NYC) its no better/worse than many other places. You want dangerous? Try the South Bronx, Bedford-Sty, or *gasp* Newark NJ. Nobody gets out alive from New Jersey!