a friend of mine told me that because i'm dating a man and i'm pre-op that makes me a gay man. is this true?

so by removing my birth defect that alone makes me a woman?
or is it this inate sense of who i am that makes me a woman?
i do not "feel" like a gay man, or a man period. i'm not sure what prompted her to say that to me but it did/does piss me off.

It depends how you look at it.  It's psychologically heterosexual, anatomically homosexual.  I lean towards the former as I think that's a more relevant view of "orientation" than the purely anatomical.

Put it this way, my gf is also pre-op and we both view our relationship is heterosexual and the fact that she's pre-op is, to us, no different in terms of sexual orientation than a natal male being in a relationship with a natal female with a strap-on.

/rant-on!

Being trans has NOTHING to do with sexual orientation!

Gender identity is how you view yourself.

Sexual orientation has to do with who you are attracted to.

Rant-off!/

Ok, that part out of the way.  Sorry, Blaire.  Also know I am not ranting or angry in any way with you.

People who are not trans (and that includes many in the LGB community as well) think that there is some connection between GID and orientation issues.

Actually, for people like us, it is *meaningless*.  You could make the argument that a trans person is *simultaneously* gay and straight depending on how you look at it.

Don't let others define you.  Especially those who probably have very little understanding of what it means to be trans.  Your definition of yourself is all that really matters.

You are female where it counts, in your head.  So dating a man sounds pretty hetero if you ask me.

-Sandy

Quote from: Sandy on June 30, 2009, 02:41:39 PM
/rant-on!

Being trans has NOTHING to do with sexual orientation!

Gender identity is how you view yourself.

Sexual orientation has to do with who you are attracted to.

Rant-off!/

Ok, that part out of the way.  Sorry, Blaire.  Also know I am not ranting or angry in any way with you.

People who are not trans (and that includes many in the LGB community as well) think that there is some connection between GID and orientation issues.

Actually, for people like us, it is *meaningless*.  You could make the argument that a trans person is *simultaneously* gay and straight depending on how you look at it.

Don't let others define you.  Especially those who probably have very little understanding of what it means to be trans.  Your definition of yourself is all that really matters.

You are female where it counts, in your head.  So dating a man sounds pretty hetero if you ask me.

-Sandy

Quote from: Sandy on June 30, 2009, 02:41:39 PM
/rant-on!

Being trans has NOTHING to do with sexual orientation!

Gender identity is how you view yourself.

Sexual orientation has to do with who you are attracted to.

Rant-off!/

Ok, that part out of the way.  Sorry, Blaire.  Also know I am not ranting or angry in any way with you.

People who are not trans (and that includes many in the LGB community as well) think that there is some connection between GID and orientation issues.

Actually, for people like us, it is *meaningless*.  You could make the argument that a trans person is *simultaneously* gay and straight depending on how you look at it.

Don't let others define you.  Especially those who probably have very little understanding of what it means to be trans.  Your definition of yourself is all that really matters.

You are female where it counts, in your head.  So dating a man sounds pretty hetero if you ask me.

-Sandy

exactly Sandy that's how i feel and what i told her. she's transgender too and i think she's jealous because i found someone or should i say someone found me.

I think that all it means is you like men.

I would take offence at being called a man when you are a woman.

Quote from: Matilda on June 30, 2009, 04:51:49 PM
[soapbox] No, it isn't true.  If your gender identity is female, and you like/are sexually attracted to guys, you're a heterosexual woman regardless of SRS status.  Of course, there are those out there, even some so called "therapists", who will not waste any time categorizing you, me or any other straight woman of transsexual history as a "hyper homosexual".  Imbeciles!  Sigh .  But you know what?  It only shows how mediocre their "qualifications" are to make such an assessment & what their hidden agenda is.  I can't help but feel sorry for the clients/patients who will get exploited by these therapists vultures though. Geez.[/soapbox]

Oh my, I love this response.

I don't blame you Blaire. I'd be genuinely pissed. Not so much being called gay but the fact your feminity is being questioned.

No. It does make you a woman with a boyfriend.  What is between your legs has nothing to do with it.

I have always felt that I was BI, especially now in transition.  But I have went to the other side of the pendulum and now call myself as lesbian.

And I am in the beginnings of a relationship with another woman.  My dear, sweet, beautiful Heather Rose.

Janet

a birth defect does NOT make you gay. Being attracted to/in a relationship with someone of the same gender is what makes you gay or lesbian. You are a woman in a relationship with a man. Nothing "gay" about that.  Like Janet says, what's between your legs has nothing to do with it any more than if you had a debilitating growth anywhere else on your body. Geez, some people.

Quote from: Matilda on June 30, 2009, 04:51:49 PM
[soapbox] No, it isn't true.  If your gender identity is female, and you like/are sexually attracted to guys, you're a heterosexual woman regardless of SRS status.  Of course, there are those out there, even some so called "therapists", who will not waste any time categorizing you, me or any other straight woman of transsexual history as a "hyper homosexual".  Imbeciles!  Sigh .  But you know what?  It only shows how mediocre their "qualifications" are to make such an assessment & what their hidden agenda is.  I can't help but feel sorry for the clients/patients who will get exploited by these therapists vultures though. Geez.[/soapbox]

Who does that besides Bailey, Blanchard, Zucker, Alice Dreger, and Anne Lawrence, Matilda?

Quote from: Matilda on June 30, 2009, 06:02:14 PM
Who do you think, Nichole?

I have no idea, except for a few of "they who shall not be named" (none of whom I am aware of being therapists) who wish to argue that " ->-bleeped-<-" applies but who wish to ignore the corollary argument with which that term is embedded "homosexual transsexuals."

The lack of understanding among "those who shall not be named" that to argue for one of those when they think it suits their purpose and dismiss the other side of the BBLZ argument is to be somewhat disingenuous to say the least. "I like 'em when they trash those I dislike" being about the sole reason that's visible for doing so.

If "those who shall not be named" wish to make such arguments then they should be shown to be exactly what they are: I believe you used the term "vultures?" I would rather just think that they haven't a clue about how argumentation works and so hoist themselves with the very ideas they wish to push half of.

N~

Quote from: Matilda on June 30, 2009, 06:21:26 PM
Perhaps I'm wrong, but you seem to be pretty familiar with "the community and the blogosphere".  I am pretty sure that you won't have any troubles figuring out "who".  Perhaps you have even read them, no?.  The net is a crazy place where old posts from people stay stored like engraved in stone you know?  It's just a matter of finding those writings and identifying who wrote them, and voila, you have your person.

Is that just a subtle way of saying you're talking through your hat?

Quote from: Matilda on June 30, 2009, 06:33:31 PM
No, what I wrote just means what it reads, but of course you are more than welcome to take it as you please.  After all, weren't you the one who said that people think whatever they want anyway and nothing we do or say can change their minds, hmmmm?  This is no exception.

P.S.  I think we're hijacking this thread.

Perhaps, but you tossed off a fairly solid statement and showed nothing to back it up. If one is going to leave innuendo lying about someone else might trip over an innuendo and hurt herself.

A reference is always a good idea if anyone is going to make an accusation. Doncha think?

N~

Don't you just love a good cat fight?  Runs and hides

Anyway, the original question is something I have wondered about myself. I am at the stage were I think maybe I'm bi-sexual. I see myself mentally as a woman who also exhibits some male qualities. Sometimes I'm attracted to women, sometimes men. But either way, I view myself as a woman most often. Sometimes I wonder if the guys I'm attracted to will view and accept me as a woman. Sometimes I picture in my mind what it might be like to have someone love and respect me as their woman. Even go to appt.s to discuss srs with me. Now I'm confused and thinking about it too much again 

Ok I didn't read all the posts, but my opinion is being posted anyway.

You are a straight woman no matter what anyone says. In the same way that I am, and always will be a lesbian no matter how I look on the outside.

the blogosphere

Is that all five writers and the two people who actually read them?  A lot of that is pretty overstated.  A few writers, writing for even fewer readers.

You are a human being in love with another human being! Simple as that!

But anyway..  If you feel as if you're straight, because you are a woman inside, then you're straight. If you feel as if you're gay because of your body right now, then you're gay. If you feel as if you don't want to label yourself, then it's nobody's business but you and your partner!

Heterosexual and homosexual are social constructs used to control the masses. The assumption is that everyone is one or the other (aside from bisexuals, but that's another story). But what about intersexed people? If you were born with indeterminate genitals and identify as androgyn, what meaning do the terms heterosexual and homosexual have?