Without going into too much detail, maybe I can get some opinions from others here.

I am an androgyne. I haven't known that term too long, but after going through a bout where I thought I had to chose to be male or female and the genders that come with that, it was a HUGE relief when I heard "androgyne" for the first time.

I was born female for the most part.

I never felt out of place until I hit 1st grade and started my first puberty. Then when I hit 11 I had my second one, period and all. I didn't find out until recently that I had a form of CAH and that my chromosomes were mosaic chimera 46XX,46XY. Back then it was extremely distressing to be a girl who was muscular and who eventually grew hair "where girls shouldn't." (especially when I started to like it) I was always more masculine that other girls, always. Back when my natural hormone levels were quite different than they are now, to be a FTM was all I could hold on to. At the time, a whole mess of traumatic things were going on, and I came to the conclusion that FTM was all I had, that that was my chance to live. I know better now, as by the grace of God I am healthy now and all my mixed-up insides are now fully functional parts of one sex. Again, without all the details- this is just cursory.

Now that my hormones are normal- I've still got the hair growth on my face and I still have the effects of them on my brain. I can say for a fact they messed with my head- I wasn't always like this. So I came to the conclusion that I am androgyne because I won't give up my masculinity. It's more of an invisible thing- more of my mannerisms and such (I forgot the word for the gestures and behaviors of genders). I actually prefer to be called by feminine pronouns- because I look female. Over the internet however, zie, hir, or male pronouns are best. Yes, I'm completely both genders, literally, to my DNA, so it's actually quite difficult to be referred to as the gender that I am.

So with that brief background, I'd like to ask how other androgynes deal with the hair thing. If your body to the outside world is female, how would you deal with hair on your face? Or if you don't shave your legs, what do you do then? I've got no intention of getting rid of any hair- I just wish I could look the way I want with what I have- and that I had the choice to not shave anything.

My clothing is usually mixed- if I wear any girly tops, it's usually with boots or something masculine, and i act more masculine (I'd imagine it's amusing to watch). When I wear more mascline or neutral clothing, I usually just relax and act "normal" for me, or I act more girly (which is still not considered girly lol).

I'm fully aware I'm completely both genders at once, my body just appears more female than male. And to make this thing easier, if you're of the binary, please don't answer this. I really don't think someone who is only one thing can ever answer something like this- though I'm open to what you'd have to say. I'm also fully aware what my "condition" is/was and will not go to a doctor of any kind as I am not ill.

Thanks <3

Just embrace the sense of self you seem so strongly to project. You seem to have your head around what you are. Take that image of yourself that's in your mind and embrace it and move towards it. Tweak it on your way to becoming what you are. Nothing wrong with the middle.

Thanks It's those "little" things I mentioned that i can't figure out what to do with.
My family wants me to get lazor hair removal or electolosis. I don't even see why. I'd only get rid of it to end the fiasco over the hair in the first place (and then I'd get rid of the hair on my legs, arms, and underarms just b/c).

I did go out in public once with a skirt on and my legs weren't shaved. I was with my dad, and I doubt he even noticed. lol

Maybe I should do that again this week- just to see what happens- last week I went out with a vary obvious 'shadow.

I think what you are saying is that if you were able to just be as yourself in your most comfortable way, you would come across as gender queer. Is that right?

So really it is a question of blending in with the binary to avoid all the preasure or being true to yourself. Personally I am visibly gender queer (in the opposite direction), and it has become easier to be so. As you become more comfortable expressing who you are openly then the looks and the comments don't matter so much.

Do you want to 'come out' as an androgyne?

My way of dealing with it all was to find support. I came out to my family as a transgender person. After that I could dress and look as I pleased with them. I put a stake in the ground and pretty much asserted myself "you people have no say in what I wear of the way I look, and it is not up for discussion" (my wife is a different story, different strokes for different folks)

Some androgynes find it easier to just blend in for the most part. I guess you need to figure out what the best path for you is. Really it just sounds to me like you want to be left alone to do your own thing. If that's the case then all you can do is find a way to tell them to back off - either by coming out or assert a 'it is none of your business' attitude, or simply letting people know that you like it and don't care if they don't and that their coments are a pain in the arse.

I've already come out to my family. In my case they were just happy I wasn't wanting to transition anymore. Everyone I meet just assumes I'm female in and out, I see no need to correct it unless they say something like, "Well she's a girl, girls don't do that." Or, "That's not lady-like." and assume it applies to me.

If I just did my own thing, I'd come across as something completely different, I would totally be seen as a freak (in good ways and in not so good ones). I don't even use the term genderqueer, as it's always been negative for me, and the people around me just see that as another way of saying "gay," which in my case, the only gay thing about me is my masculine side being attracted to the same gender my other side is. Which most people don't understand anyway.

Yes, I'd just like to be left alone to do my own thing. I pretty much already tell people to bugger off, that they don't understand and they can do the research themselves.

I was just curious what other androgynes would think about what I posted. About the image of basically, a female with male patterned hair on arms, legs, etc. It's not exactly an easy thing to want to be seen as.

Because regardless, I see how I am a female as simply my body, not as the whole thing. It's other people who see that as the deciding factor.

HI   .Raye.
     One of the most important things is accept your self first . For those of us who are andro.s . we have a lot of things going for us . being in the middle has some good points . because we think both ways at the same time . its pretty neat . i find it is . how we dress hey its not a problem . if we go one way or the other what does it matter . its still us inside . i know i am accepted . for who i am . yet i.m accepted as a woman ...& still do male things . like building . & cabinat making . so . its really a no brainer .. even for my friends . they dont care . & we get on quite well . well you can allways be a  .  tounge in cheek  tom boy ..i know were your coming from .. what i do see is when you are happy in side  . then thats the main thing . some things just take a little longer .
...noeleena...

Hello Raye!

It sounds to me like you already have yourself pretty much figured out, which is more than a lot of us can say 

As noeleena said, being in the middle is not a bad thing; we can see all sides of issues and stuff like that. The problems usually come with the presentation of ourselves. The outside world is not always comfortable with the choices that we might make with clothes and hairstyles.

Anyway, live life as you choose to and to heck with what other people think 

Thanks so much to everyone who responded.
When I posted, I was looking for some quick way to solve the issue with the hair and everything, but as yesterday wore on I had a good talk with Him, and it kinda makes sense for me now.

Why would I let what others say bother me anyway? For the first time in my life I actually understand and like who I am. Sure, there are a LOT of things that have had to change, that I've had to give up, but I'm okay with that now. I see my body as only one part of me.. and from what I believe, when I pass on it'll be like I was simply given an opportunity to see another way of existing.

As for going to get any hair removed, what's the point? My body is fine now, and I don't want to have to take a million tests to prove that (again) just to be approved for any kind of removal. I've had enough of needles and doctors who only want money from me and for me to "assimilate." I love sci-fi, but not *that* much. lol

I'm not even interested in relationships anymore. To try to explain who and what I am to *another* person is exhausting. I just want a sane, secure person- that is apparently impossible to find lol.

What's is it like being a christian androgyne? A rare breed of a rare breed.

I'm not sure how to answer that, seeing as it's not rare. Just because people don't flaunt it doesn't mean it's not there.

I'm not really going to answer that, sorry. It's kinda a pet peeve to be asked that or to support what I am using Scripture publicly.

I'm just going from all the non-binaries I know, I don't know any that are christians. Rare from my perspective, not to mention christians are a minority group anyway. And I think non-binary gender identified people are a relatively rare breed compared to binary identified people and even fewer of those identify specificaly as androgyne. A rare breed of a rare breed.

I just asked the question as I was interested in whether you see your gender in the light of your faith, whether it is hard to be non-binary in a christian religion. You don't have to reply if you don't want to. We can leave out the scripture. I was not questioning your faith or wanting you to justify yourself  .

You could always just say "yeah, it is pretty good" if that is the case.

Quote from: Nicky on July 08, 2009, 03:44:36 PM
What's is it like being a christian androgyne? A rare breed of a rare breed.

I'll give it a shot.

Once I figured out how I was, I had to do some deep introspection about my faith, what it teaches and how it ties into who/how I am.

In the final analysis there is no conflict. God made me, knows me, and takes care of me and that's enough. God and I will figure out the rest of it as we go along. Personal relationship and all of that stuff.

And for those of you that might want to argue with me about any of this - please keep it to yourself. After all, I don't come on here and start threads to try to spread my faith. I don't really care about arguing with you. You be you and i'll be me, we'll leave our personal beliefs as personal, and we'll get along fabulously 

And I do believe that there are a couple of transgender people on this board who have talked about their faith (i'm not naming names). There are probably more of us out there than you think, and perhaps even several here on this board that don't express themselves for fear of getting flamed.

I admire people who have faith. Sometimes I envy them, not often but I do.

Thanks for sharing Riven_One.

Quote from: riven_one on July 08, 2009, 08:34:45 PM
I'll give it a shot.

Once I figured out how I was, I had to do some deep introspection about my faith, what it teaches and how it ties into who/how I am.

In the final analysis there is no conflict. God made me, knows me, and takes care of me and that's enough. God and I will figure out the rest of it as we go along. Personal relationship and all of that stuff.

And for those of you that might want to argue with me about any of this - please keep it to yourself. After all, I don't come on here and start threads to try to spread my faith. I don't really care about arguing with you. You be you and i'll be me, we'll leave our personal beliefs as personal, and we'll get along fabulously 

And I do believe that there are a couple of transgender people on this board who have talked about their faith (i'm not naming names). There are probably more of us out there than you think, and perhaps even several here on this board that don't express themselves for fear of getting flamed.

You pretty much said it like I would.
I just don't like to explain it because I've been backed into a corner many many times on the subject, and it tends to make non-believers reaaaally hateful of what i have to say. People experience things at times that no one can explain- and when faced with that- I get attacked b/c I refuse to make up something about how I was dead, how I was born with two completely different parts internally, and how in one day w/o surgery of any kind, I'm completely normal now. As is stands I've only got my chromosomes to say I'm IS at all- when less than 6 months ago everyone knew I was.

So I don't talk about it. If it's brought up, it *is* what is being asked. And Christians are in no way a minority group. Just a lot of us are smart enough to keep our mouths shut for what happens when we open them.

Hi....I will agree  with you on the point of faith  . it is a very close  to the heart subject . for many . & allso depend on how we have been brought up .
One  of the things i learnt was . how do you accept others who are different than your self . namly for us as trans people . coming with our faith  & being presented as not who they used to see us . some can not accept us because we live differently . . one of the main reasons is . how they have been taught  over many years . hence the reason many of us do not talk about our selfs let alone in the churchs  some attend. this should not be the case  . yet sadly it is . so i dont talk about others .
  .    For me . i deal with a church group . & been with others  that i have been with for over 50 years .  what changes have i seen .   some would reject me out right . no if.s or but.s . . & others most people have known me so was not a problem . years ago .... oh now that would have been intersting . my thinking would be . they would not accept ..
As of now . the group i attend i would say some are unsure . others not care . as they talk with me as though i have allways been there . & as a woman ... i have two women friends who . accept with out any  
      we of cause have talked about us & others like me & you .s  here . there is no issue. (( no names or places given out ...)).
     One is very close . & i told her she is to me my girl friend ... you know you can really open up & she does to me . now i did not expect that . so dont give up .    ill say this we can have insiders . who are  there for us . you connect with them .
I  will say this . with out the Lords help . & going before me . in my coming out . i could never have ever got to where i am now . the people  who went out of there way . for me . the doors that were opened for me . just every thing . dont ever disscount the Lord  yes i.v been through hell . i know . yet i was lead  through it all .   
        & if there are some who dont have our fath  or can not accept our faith    hey thats cool . you are still my friends with out   hey i.m not perfect  far from it . yet we have been given so much . i know i have .
    As i.v said before acceptance is important ...& we can have that . we all so need to accept others . we have to put our selfs in thier shoes then we know what they have to contend  with . not all ways so easy ...
    We allso need to learn how to say sorry . even if we know inside . i know for me . we learn to be women ... as we grow ...
      arguing  about what some of us belive does not help us to get to know each one here . yet we can help each other & that.   i accept .
    ...noeleena...

Quote from: Raye on July 08, 2009, 09:13:27 PM
And Christians are in no way a minority group. Just a lot of us are smart enough to keep our mouths shut for what happens when we open them.

The world population is something like 6.7 billion and there are an estimated 2 billion people that identify as christians at least minimally - that is a minority isn't it. If you were not a minority would you feel the need to keep your mouth shut? Fair enough that you don't want to talk about it. It is always a loaded topic.

Quote from: Nicky on July 09, 2009, 04:03:20 PM
The world population is something like 6.7 billion and there are an estimated 2 billion people that identify as christians at least minimally - that is a minority isn't it. If you were not a minority would you feel the need to keep your mouth shut? Fair enough that you don't want to talk about it. It is always a loaded topic.

I keep my mouth shut because I don't want to start any fights, and when Christianity is mentioned, this is what ALWAYS happens.

I love having my thread hijacked, btw. You could have just asked it in PM, but whatever. I'll get my answers somewhere else.

Quote from: Nicky on July 09, 2009, 04:03:20 PM
The world population is something like 6.7 billion and there are an estimated 2 billion people that identify as christians at least minimally - that is a minority isn't it. If you were not a minority would you feel the need to keep your mouth shut? Fair enough that you don't want to talk about it. It is always a loaded topic.

Every internet message board that i've ever been on - it's been a hot topic, with plenty of people willing to chip in and tell you exactly what they think of your faith, and exactly what they think of you whenever the subject comes up. Needless to say, some threads become quite heated. People are afraid that you might be trying to "convert" them or something. I see it more as what you believe in is your business, but i'd also be glad to answer any questions you might have about what I believe in. If you have none, thats fine too.

After awhile it grows old, and you just decide not to even mention it in any way. Thats what I believe that Raye meant.

There is a time and a season for everything, so I just go about my business and keep certain things to myself most of the time and things go a lot better.

Quote from: riven_one on July 09, 2009, 06:24:49 PM
Every internet message board that i've ever been on - it's been a hot topic, with plenty of people willing to chip in and tell you exactly what they think of your faith, and exactly what they think of you whenever the subject comes up. Needless to say, some threads become quite heated. People are afraid that you might be trying to "convert" them or something. I see it more as what you believe in is your business, but i'd also be glad to answer any questions you might have about what I believe in. If you have none, thats fine too.

After awhile it grows old, and you just decide not to even mention it in any way. Thats what I believe that Raye meant.

There is a time and a season for everything, so I just go about my business and keep certain things to myself most of the time and things go a lot better.

Again, you said what I meant.
I try to back out of a conversation when it's just unwise and unwelcome to even be in it. I don't live off of conflict, I take life as it is. What a person believes is what they believe. Right or wrong, it's their choice. And I don't point fingers because that's being petty and acting the same way as others.

I don't know. I just started this thread for something to say, I had no idea it would turn into this, and I'm leaving it be. I avoid this kind of thing because I'm sick of hearing about it tbh. I've been judged enough by my "own" on both sides.

As is stands, even bringing up the main topic (which you can't even tell anymore) opened a can of worms and has caused me to spiral, so yeah. I'm not depressed, I'm just sick of wanting actual help and having to fight to get it in any form.

What i got from this thread is:
I'm a freak, all agree but me
I'm apparently ok with this, and need to tell ppl to bug off

All I'm trying to do is understand better what i want to do. I know who I am, and I know my body is nowhere near that. I only wanted some advice/opinions on the hair thing, I NEVER wanted this to get into a religion discussion- which has NO PLACE in this thread. If I wanted some information about THAT, I would have told my life story- because it's a loaded "religion" weapon.

I'm starting a new thread b/c this one is crap.