I'd like to get the opinions, not medical advice but opinions of those with far more experience discussing and sharing your personal thoughts, your feelings and experiences than I have.

I need to discover if I'm an oddball, fall in the middle somewhere, am nuts or some other area unknown to me.

First, that I am TG is not the question. I have no doubts about who and what I am and for that question I don't need a therapist to tell me. A therapist is more than likely in my near future but not to answer that, it's just not a question.

I have known for 50 years that I am TG though back then it was intense frustration not knowing why or even how I could feel like this. No computers, no internet, no books, no nothing to try and learn from. Forty some years ago I heard of Christine Jorgensen on the news and much became very clear to me. For many, many years I dreamed of having her courage but the more I was able to learn the more doubt I had in a surgeon's ability to give me the body I craved. Even though today with the advances that have been made and I have fewer reservations, they remain just the same.

So here is one of my problems, I have far less need to "look" right than I do to "feel" right. This is probably why I have spent so little time dressing over the years, it only makes me "look" more like I should look but does nothing to make me "feel" like I should. Regardless of the skill of today's surgeons I have serious doubts that what s/he could make for me would "feel" even close for me what a natural woman takes for granted. One thing that is critically important to me, just under feeling "right" is to not be sexless. Regardless of how wrong my sex is (and believe me, it is) it is still sex and to have that removed for the purpose of "looking" more natural is another stumbling block in any quest for SRS.

So here I am at 60 (closer to 61) years old, my only immediate plans are an orchiectomy (hopefully by the end of this year, but this will happen) and maybe, possibly hormones. None of this has anything to do with what it looks like, it's 100% for what "I feel like".

So . . . is it odd, strange, unusual for a TG person to care so little about their looks? Perhaps it would be more accurate to say "looking and dressing female". Reading posts here it seems to me that "dressing" is very important to many of you so is it unusual for a TG person to have so little desire to do so? Maybe it has to do with my height and my build, hormones could only do so much and the odds of my even coming close to passing are pretty slim. Perhaps because I have spent my entire life on a daily basis attempting to convince myself it is what it is.

What say you folks, odd?

erty

I don't think it's odd. The most important thing is to feel at home in our own bodies. Usually what we look like to other people is secondary to that.

Hi Erty, I think if your just concerned with "feeling right" then I think hormones will probobly help this. As for me the more feminine I get myself to look-even very small advances, the better I feel. Maybe I'm just an imature 43 year old or vain or both. But I also  feel better when I'm around my friends who know who I am, such an awesome feeling lemme tell you!:laugh:

Erty,

It's not strange at all. I believe the majority of us do it because we need to feel right in our own skins, not so much for how those skins look in some clothes.

Hi Erty.  Welcome to Susan's.

I'm about five years your senior, so let an older woman give you some advice.

First, therapy.  Yes, you already know that you are TG, but you have other questions, too.  The therapist will help you discover what you really want to to and then help you manage doing it.

Rather than an orchiectomy, I would recommend hormones.  I'm taking an anti-androgen that effectively has castrated me chemically.  (I love it.)  I got it from my family physician, who prescribed it for me because he has known me for years and has known my gender issues for years.  I don't know what your relationship is with your physician, but the pills (paid mostly by insurance) are a lot cheaper than an orchi.  (Plus, if you do eventually have GRS, they'll use some of that tissue you'd lose in an orchi to create better female parts.)

When I started finally dealing with all this I knew what the path was but didn't know how far down the path I wanted to go.  But with each step I've found I wanted to take the next step and now expect to do everything I can to become as much of a woman as I can.  (No FFS, though.)  This is a long process.  Take one step at a time.  I believe the first step, really, is finding a trained, neutral, concerned person to talk to - a therapist.

Good luck in your explorations to find the real you.

- Katee

Thanks for the replies everyone,

Hhmmm . . . lot's of food for thought in heatherrose's post. Lot's.

Transgender or woman? Very possible I am confusing terms. I have always considered (when considering myself) this as the same thing. I have since a very early age considered myself female and since my early teens I have not had single second thought about that.

Of course in my early teen years there was no internet, no books, no source of information of any kind and such a subject was never, never, never discussed with anyone. Not even doctors or at least not the doctors I was able ask about it. I asked a couple of doctors when I was in my early 20's for help and was stopped cold. I asked for referrals, no way, they refused to discuss it at all.

Twenty years of incredible frustration, confusion and depression later I got a 3 month supply of hormones (I mentioned this in another post). From this I did get some breast growth, not nearly what I wanted but a huge improvement just the same. To this day my tiny breasts are the only part of me that is "normal" for me and a source of . . . well, joy and some pretty awesome sensations.

Unlike your landlady I guess I am a coward, pretty spineless as I simply could not do that. I convinced myself many, many years ago that I will never be the sexy lady I've always craved being. I have spent my life convincing myself "it is what it is" but folks . . . it ain't. The more years you fool yourself the harder and harder it gets to fool yourself.

For me the minor breast growth did a lot for a few years to ease the depression. Just the fact that finally I had something normal, natural, right made the rest a bit easier to live with, didn't eliminate it by any means but things were some better, for awhile anyway. Better but at times that I am honest with myself (and it's not uncommon for me to lie to myself) I was still depressed, even though part of me was so right I was still fooling myself, the rest of me is so wrong and harder to live with every year that goes by.

Back to your landlady, if I were to ever be fortunate enough to get SRS it would have to be dressed male and there is the trepidation in seeing a therapist. With SRS I would "feel" far better about myself and to h*ll with what the world thought they saw. I have never been able to convince myself that such a course would meet with much success.

Thanks for listening to me rabble on. I am learning so much reading all your posts and having real people to discuss this with for the very first time in my life, it is a tremendous help.

erty

I'm sure many can identify with your feelings. It's nice to look good enfemme but that is a minor detail. For myself it is how I feel as a person. You should do what feels best for YOU. Must have been hell for fifty years living with the need to be your true self and not quite being there. Hugs, Genevieve

Quote from: erty on July 07, 2009, 07:58:36 PM
So . . . is it odd, strange, unusual for a TG person to care so little about their looks? Perhaps it would be more accurate to say "looking and dressing female". Reading posts here it seems to me that "dressing" is very important to many of you so is it unusual for a TG person to have so little desire to do so? What say you folks, odd?

erty

No, I used to dress up all the time. I bet its been over 5 years since I have even had much more than Burts Bees Peony Colored Lip balm on my lips. Its not that I don't want to, or wish too, its that I know I don't look like a girl. With makeup on I look like ....well like a clown. I won't do it. Hrt is helping but it takes longer than 4 months to show any changes. I do have to wear a sports bra everyday and i won't wear boys underwear anymore and even my shoes and socks come from the women's department. I buff and shine my nails, they are very manicured, and I pluck my eyebrows lightly. I probably look weird. I don't care. When I can look like a female dressed up then I'll worry about it. I've had years of practice. I suspect it will be like riding a bike.

I stopped because the clothes were not my problem. It was me, my body and my identity. There is a difference between cross dressers and TS/Women/Men. And there are differences withing the TS community. I know some TS that don't care what they look like and will go out with a dress and a beard whereas I can't or won't.

I think we are all different and I don't find what you ask odd at all.

Quote from: erty on July 07, 2009, 07:58:36 PM
I'd like to get the opinions, not medical advice but opinions ...

So . . . is it odd, strange, unusual for a TG person to care so little about their looks? Perhaps it would be more accurate to say "looking and dressing female". Reading posts here it seems to me that "dressing" is very important to many of you so is it unusual for a TG person to have so little desire to do so? Maybe it has to do with my height and my build, hormones could only do so much and the odds of my even coming close to passing are pretty slim. Perhaps because I have spent my entire life on a daily basis attempting to convince myself it is what it is.

What say you folks, odd?

erty

While "looking and dressing female" are very important aspects of passing and acceptance, for many TS changing their bodies to match who they are is generally a priority in order for them to live "Normal" lives.  I believe the reason why a lot TS have dressing and passing as their top priority is that they are caught in a bit of a conundrum in that for some, such as yourself, correcting their bodies (ie. SRS, hair removal) to match who they are is all they need, BUT, in order to be approved for surgery many surgeons follow Harry's Standards of Care which require the person to do the RLT bit for one year; and to be successful at that one should definitely pass or life could be pretty rough.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that "Nope it's not unusual."

-={LR}=-

Hello Erty.  I am a little younger than you, but basically from the same era.  Christine Jorgenson was also my first exposure to being trans, but, I never, in my wildest dreams ever felt i could do that.  And, as you, after all the years of frustration, depression, etc., it was just a matter of life and death for me, so, about a year and a half ago, I started on my path, hair removal, therapist, doctor, hormones (June of '08) and finally, full time as of last Sept.  I am having my pre-surgical consult on Sept. 15th, so although it seems to be happening quickly, it has been a lifetime in the making.  Presentation and body image are another thing, and very personal of course.  As the other people in this thread have stated, you must be happy with yourself.  If you people watch at all, you will notice that women come in all shapes and sizes.  If you look at almost any female, you could question their gender, and if they pass.  There are many genetic girls out there who I certainly don't want to emulate.  Be comfortable with who you are, but, don't give up working on improving that person.  That should be a goal for everyone, regardless of gender.

I'm 58.  I had GRS last March.  Lots of things floated through my head along the way but what never changed was the desire to feel comfortable in my own skin.  I didn't KNOW GRS would do that for me but it did.  All the other steps, HRT, BA, FFS and self help books, etc helped with the transition but none of them resulted in the feelings of inner peace I now have since GRS.

For the record, I said many times before I had seriously looked into any surgeries that GRS was the only one that really mattered to me.  I can now say that proved to be true.

That's just me.  This doesn't mean everyone will feel the same.

Julie

Quote from: K8 on July 08, 2009, 08:16:28 AM
Hi Erty.  Welcome to Susan's.

I'm about five years your senior, so let an older woman give you some advice.

First, therapy.  Yes, you already know that you are TG, but you have other questions, too.  The therapist will help you discover what you really want to to and then help you manage doing it.

Rather than an orchiectomy, I would recommend hormones.  better female parts.) - Katee

Hi Katee, thanks for sharing your experiences with me.


If you'll read my other posts you should get an idea why the orchi is the next step for me.

My list of priority's of what is possible/practical which is the list of what I consider most "wrong" about me and what is the most difficult to live with would be:

1> testicles, besides being an incredible reminder of how "wrong and opposite" they make me feel, for that past couple of years they have been on an increasing scale of painful and more difficult to live by the day. If I weren't TS I am at a point that I would still want them gone. I am seeing a urologist about this, he has ruled out cancer and infection, he has so far offered no explanation for the pain but has me on pain meds and antibiotics right now. I get the feeling that he doesn't really believe they hurt. It's like he has no idea why they would hurt therefore they either don't or live on pain meds. I have not asked him for an orchi yet, I plan on waiting until after another appointment or two when he finally admits he hasn't got a clue. I seriously doubt this will get me an orchi from him so if and when this fails I will see a therapist and go that route. If nothing else at least I know I don't have cancer. One way or another they gotta go, they have been horrible to live with my entire life and now they are impossible to live with. Aside from SRS or even HRT being rid of that problem will be a huge improvement for me.

2> Second on the list and it's a very, very close second is not having correct female anatomy. At this time I can't see that happening but . . . who knows what the future may bring.

3> Third, getting back on hormones. The three months I was taking them were some of the best of my life and also the very best physically I have ever felt. This is a real possibility. This is also something that I will see a therapist about if the time for it comes.

4> Having that male thing down there. Now we are at the area that I have been leading up to and the reason for my posts asking about odd, unusual etc. I "think" it's possible, there's a chance, maybe I could be at least be reasonably comfortable living with that. While yes, I feel like a freak with it, I feel "opposite", backwards and believe it's a poor substitute for "right" or "normal", in all honesty it is of course sexual and I cannot help but feel that not being sexed (scared of losing what I do have) would be on a par with feeling as wrong as I feel now. That is what I have spent my life convincing myself of and of coarse I could be dead wrong as obviously I've never not had what I do have and I've never experienced the other way either. There is however comfort in believing I am right.

5> Dressing and or looking female in public has always been a low priority for me. Sure I'd love to be an incredibly sexy lady walking down the street turning heads but I'm intelligent enough to know that's not a possibility, it will never happen. One thing that I have become comfortable with is if the world looks at me and sees a man that's ok, I know better (and I've got a secret).

I have never uttered (or typed) a word of any of this to anyone in my life and look at all I said in just the last couple of days. It's a huge weight lifted having the people here to talk with. I've just never been able to do this before and I hope I'm not boring everybody.

With this additional info where would I fit into the world of TS? Outside the norm, different, in the middle somewhere? I don't know why knowing this is important to me but it is.

erty

Erty, I think you are certainly in the range somewhere.

A lot of TG people concentrate on the outer aspects at first - dressing, makeup, etc.  But it's how we feel inside that is important, and we tend to learn that as we go through this process of correcting our birth imbalances and finding ourselves.

I don't mind my male parts - they're just there.  Mostly I ignore them but will be glad to have them gone.  If it is important for you to have yours gone, then do what you can to do that.

You've taken a big step here, asking the questions you have.  The next step is to find someone you can talk to one-on-one.  Sometimes it takes a few tries to find a decent therapist that you are comfortable working with, but having one can be very helpful.

I'm from the same era as you and understand a lot of what you are saying.  The specifics of our stories are different, but the generalities are very much the same.

*hugs*
Kate

(Katee was a typo )

erty,

I would say your very much in the middle of the pack here. Parts of your story are similiar to mine although backwards. (I'm FTM) I never said anything to anyone either but my first realization that I was not alone was meeting someone starting to transition. I agree that having this forum to talk of these feelings is like having some freedom to express myself and outright ask questions while usually getting answers without even saying a word.

^ Longwinded welcome to Susan's.

Thanks LordKAT and the others that responded.

Lot's of comfort for me in these posts, so I'm not an oddball.

Hmmm . . . yep, that feels good.

erty

Hey Erty!  I know TG is imo a very broad term.  Are you TS???  Very short detail about myself..I have always been in a female mindset.  Feelings,  emotion, actions, the way i think, always female, and i was an attractive male...didnt have a prob with women, but inside i was always fem, even in a male/fem intimate situation, in my mind it was fem/fem, although i never told any woman.  I was in denial.  Crossdressing, although it plays a role, it is imo mostly in the mindset of the person.  Dressing and being intimate just enhances what is already there or should be if you are truly TS.  Also, there are so many varying degrees of transsexualism that it is hard to determine or diagnose especially if you are not a qualified professional.  I have always felt female..my looks even tho im very critical of myself, have not that much to do with how i feel..looks are just an enhancement, but for some it is a big block.  I would wonder why it would take so long to start a physical process??  I know denial can be a big factor as well as attractiveness, but imo..i would have seen a counselor at least b4 this time..Could it be  a situation we dont know about..I know alot of TS want to transition, but it is a financial issue mostly.  You say you know you are "TG" which means??, but if you mean TS then i am really thinking it is either  a financial or your social situation.  Sounds like looks are a factor, only because you bring it up.  Sometimes ppls  minds can play tricks on them, especially if they are really determined, especially if they feel the odds are against them.  There are so many variables in your question, it would be next to impossible to answer without imposing questions to you, especially without  knowing your background or personality.  Hope everything works out for you..

Hi Erty,

Looks or being En Femme are not the only thing that this journey is about.  It is all about being true to yourself.  Each of us has our own styles.  I live in jeans and tops, mostly because of work.  If given the chance it is all about skirts, dresses and pretty tops.  Nail polish and makeup, but I still have a bit of a shadow.  But I don't think that my Girl minds my look at all. 

I am 55 and full time for 10 months now, HRT for 15 months.  I still work for a living.  But no matter your style, it is all about you and your true self.

Janet

Michelle, thanks for your very thought provoking reply. First, I am no doubt confusing terms. I've read numerous threads and many, many posts in the past few days and even figured out some of the initials. SRS and HRT for example I already knew, a few others I have figured out and several others I haven't a clue. TG and TS I knew the meaning of the letters but I thought they meant the same thing, obviously not. Forgive my ignorance with this please, I'm trying to learn.

In denial? Well, not to me but in the closet? Yep . . . deep, deep in the closet. Male/female is the only relationships I've ever had and like you it was for me female/female (no, they had no clue) and no, I have never uttered a word to anyone about this, not ever. Had a huge problem with these relationships though, while I wasn't impotent as soon as I got anywhere near a vagina I literally turned so green with envy I was impotent, ruined everything. Never thought I'd admit that but it is true. Never slept with a man and could never see any reason to, the thought of not being able to do with him what I would crave doing with him would have me beating my head against the wall and he would probably not understand why I was doing that. And no, I couldn't tell him.

Cross dressing . . . I tried dressing a bit years ago and got very little to nothing from it. It did not make me feel in the slightest bit any closer to female and it did even less to make me look female. Not having any interest in dressing is part of the reason I've asked some of the questions that I have like just how "odd" am I. Reading thread after thread and hundreds of posts here at Susan's and one after another is on dressing and passing. Must be me, I just can't generate any interest in dressing, make up etc. And passing? Not after years of HRT and a whole team of plastic surgeons could I pass. I accepted that fact many years ago; it will not, could not ever happen. If I had completed SRS I would still be in male clothes, jeans, T shirt, short hair and I would even probably keep the mustache. It doesn't bother me in the slightest that someone looks at me and thinks they see a man. What matters tremendously to me is getting as comfortable with myself as practical and that's why I'm here, learning from all of you kind folks.

I have finally started the journey thanks to the people here, very doubtful it will end with SRS but there is much progress that can and will be made.

erty

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Post Merge: July 10, 2009, 01:42:45 AM

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Quote from: Janet Lynn on July 10, 2009, 12:13:15 AM
Hi Erty, If given the chance it is all about skirts, dresses and pretty tops. Nail polish and makeup, but I still have a bit of a shadow.  Janet

Yep, it must be me alright.

And I should have asked in my last post, not knowing the difference between TG and TS anyone want to make a SWAG about me? I'd really like to know.
erty

Hi...wellcome to our forums ....Erty.
    i am a transfemale .& a andro . i live as a woman & have done for 11 years . s r s ..b a ..  h r t . so i count as a menopausal  woman . at 61 . 62 next month .
   50 years of being brought up as a male yet never quite being one . & who would we talk to in the 50.s 60.s as to saying i am a woman ....if we did we would have been sanctioned . no . we said nothing .   at 10 i knew . just what do you do .
     Okay . 5 years ago i went on h r t .. then 3 years later s r s & b a ... thats it no f f s . i just use a epalater for my body hair . no hair on top thats worth anything 
  clothes . i am dressed all the time as a women . yet still do building . as a woman . no prob.s .
Do i pass... he he .giggle ...well i dont think so . yet i am told i do ... yea right . they must be blind  or a 100 yards down the road . that is not a concern .. because i am accepted for who i am . i most likely would pass . if i was made up . to the hilt ... thats just not me . all i have on most of the time is lippy . & i meet many . many people . as i do camara work . the h r t do help . just not like a much younger trans . say 20 to 30 ... yet there are some nice details that have changed . & still are after 5 years on h r t ... mentaly  as well . mind you being wired both m & f has been a really neat detail for me . 
The most importain part of being who we are is how we accept our selfs .. thats the main detail ... get that right then the rest will & can follow . i accepted my self when i was very young just because we have some odd bits . & some missing did not stop me from being who i am . i knew .. so just accepted that . i did not hate my body.   how do you explain it . i just knew .  you said info ... oh yes what info we had .none .. & even up to 11 years ago i did not know  . For some of us its a long time & a hell of a road  to have been on . well i am now happy were i am . & being able to express who i am with out fear or any thing that could have stoped myself from being who i should be .
  thats the most important part of my life . & being...  FREE...
    ...noeleena...