Although, all of our situations are unique, I am caught up in a quagmire.  I'm pre-op, and have been living full time since last September.  Although my wife and I still live together, and still are very connected, there is no physical attraction.  We have discussed the issue of dating, and know that each of us, being attracted to men, would pursue this.  Since i am the outgoing and extremely social one, she knew I would probably be the first one to take that step, and we both agreed that we would be open and share everything as sisters/best girlfriends.  When I told her that I had met John and discussed going out with him, she accepted it, but of course had mixed feelings, as do I.  Our emotional connection is extreme, but the fact that we want each other to be happy is also a factor.
I met John for lunch on Tuesday, and found him to be a total gentleman, very attentive, and quite attractive.  He is single, and knows what my situation is.  Although, it was a casual, getting to know you first date, there were some nice kisses.  I wasn't struck by a lightening bolt, but, there could be some substance there, and I will go out with him again.
I pretty much shared all the details including our conversation, and kisses with my wife. (still not sure how to refer to her)  Of course, she is sad, and concerned that she will lose me, and I honestly con't tell her that there is no chance of that.  I can't envision my life without her, and except for romance, we are cranking on all cylinders as far as companions go.  So, the big question, can we remain sisters/best friends, and pursue romantic relationships?  Of course, keeping in mind that it is possible to fall in love again.

Quote from: ArleneTgirl on July 09, 2009, 11:55:23 AM
Although, all of our situations are unique, I am caught up in a quagmire.  I'm pre-op, and have been living full time since last September.  Although my wife and I still live together, and still are very connected, there is no physical attraction.  We have discussed the issue of dating, and know that each of us, being attracted to men, would pursue this.  Since i am the outgoing and extremely social one, she knew I would probably be the first one to take that step, and we both agreed that we would be open and share everything as sisters/best girlfriends.  When I told her that I had met John and discussed going out with him, she accepted it, but of course had mixed feelings, as do I.  Our emotional connection is extreme, but the fact that we want each other to be happy is also a factor.
I met John for lunch on Tuesday, and found him to be a total gentleman, very attentive, and quite attractive.  He is single, and knows what my situation is.  Although, it was a casual, getting to know you first date, there were some nice kisses.  I wasn't struck by a lightening bolt, but, there could be some substance there, and I will go out with him again.
I pretty much shared all the details including our conversation, and kisses with my wife. (still not sure how to refer to her)  Of course, she is sad, and concerned that she will lose me, and I honestly con't tell her that there is no chance of that.  I can't envision my life without her, and except for romance, we are cranking on all cylinders as far as companions go.  So, the big question, can we remain sisters/best friends, and pursue romantic relationships/  Of course, keeping in mind that it is possible to fall in love again.

I'd swear that you ripped a page out my book.  My Ex and I both had the same relationship as you find yourself.  Once we started to date it effectively put an end to our married relationship.  We are still friends and chat quite often but we did divorce, we had to if we wanted to pursue new lives. Wanting to stay friends will definitely make divorce easier, as it seems like divorce is inevitable.

-={LR}=-

If I'm being honest with myself, I think that  ultimately, that will happen.  It just makes me sad, because I don't want to hurt her.  At the same time, she and I both need to be happy.  Of course, it always helps to talk about it, so thank you for the response.  We are never as unique as we think.

Arlene, I think in time your ex and you will be just fine.  This takes time, and you're both taking the necessary steps to get on with your lives.  You're further along in the transition process than me, but I'm about your age.  Experience has proven that things can and do work out in their good time.  It'll be fine.  You'll see.  Until then, both of you enjoy your lives.  Hugs!   

After my ex and I separated we began a friendship, not real close but we are friends.  She dates and I am in a relationship.

Arlene, if you two can remain friends that would be a great thing.  But a relationship outside of a marriage will kill it quick.  Review what you both want and come to a meeting of the minds

I wish you both the bast.

Janet

Get divorced now!  While it's still friendly, and before she has ammo against you.

^Not all married nat females are like that.  Ive heard the above soo many times...I suppose statics are against it % wise, but no one knows truly another persons relationship  with their spouse.  Mine is the same as yours, but tell me...do you have sep bedrooms and shower areas???..Your wife is straight just like mine, but we have a verbal understanding that we will never, ever divorce or leave each other.   I dont ever want to live with someone else and neither does she.  If we meet or form a relationship with someone, they will know exactly our situation, and if they cant handle it or the man she is dating cant accept me...hes/she is gone.  My wife doesnt even want to live with another man...sure she wants to date and prob have a relationship at some  point..but we have discussed this over and over and we are on the same page.  She  is not vindictive at all...I believe if you are upfront in the beginning and have an open communication things can work out...If you are with a straight woman that is very conservative and  not understanding tho, thats when problems happen.  If you havent talked about relationships in depth, i would urge you to b4 she gets mixed signals.  I know ppl are not going to agree with me on this..but having sep rooms and your own space helps a great deal.  We still share common areas of our home, but i even have my own door leading to the outside in my bedroom, so if i feel a man trustworthy, i can have him over and still not have to intrude on my  wifes privacy.  Same goes for her.  I tell her everything and she does me.  Even tho we are no longer intimate, we still love each other very much.  If i were to meet someone she doesnt like, i respect her  judgement and take it into consideration, just as i would do with her.  Yes, we are more like gf's, but very best friends that share not only a common bond, but love that goes beyond intimacy.  Good luck!

Thanks Michelle.
We are very much like you.  Right now, thats the way we see our relationship.  That being said, neither of us really knows how things will progress.  We will just continue to communicate and honestly share our feelings.
As far as divorce, I am beyond the point of her having ammunition.  Of course, real life has shown that, "never say never" as far as nasty breakups go, but, I don't see it with us.

Open communicating is the forefront then, but imo saying too much about what goes on in your intimate life can be too much info for a straight woman.  I dont feel she  needs to know all the fine details of my dates or if any intimate things happen.  Understand that  she knew you as a male, so she is prob still  adapting..I try to keep private about too deep of details.  I dont want to know every time she kisses a guy, but it is totally up to her if she  wants to share.  Straight women usually dont want to  even know about it.  At least mine doesnt.  If she wants to know, she'll ask.  I know you might feel the urge, especially if it is a good experience, but remember..even tho she is trying to be understanding..try to be less open about fine details..Just say you met a nice guy and perhaps  alittle of what you talked about..leave out the kissing and stuff..Even tho she is straight,  she will prob always think of you as her spouse. 

Again Michelle, to late for that.  I had to be forthcoming early in my transition about some encounters which were purely sexual. (an assumed trans friend took care of that when she taped our phone conversations and played them for her)  I promised at that point to be up front with everything.  That was the point when she realized that a husband and wife relationship was pretty much over.  We have made a commitment to "do our best" to remain together as friends and sisters.  Of course, she is having difficulty adjusting, but, we are making some progress.  Only time will tell if we are able to make it work.  Fortunately, I have a wonderful support system in addition to her, and am very active in the Detroit Trans community and lead a support group.

I hope the best for you Arlene.  If your willing I am very interested in hearing how your dates go, but I can understand is that is far to personal.

-- Galantha

Sharing experiences on this forum is good for the soul, so, i will definitely update my Forum Friends.  As far as juicey details, we shall see.  I'm not the kind of girl who keeps all those things a secret, but, I'm not very graphic either.  I consider myself a pretty conventional female.

Quote from: ArleneTgirl on July 10, 2009, 08:03:14 AM
Again Michelle, to late for that.  I had to be forthcoming early in my transition about some encounters which were purely sexual. (an assumed trans friend took care of that when she taped our phone conversations and played them for her)  I promised at that point to be up front with everything.  That was the point when she realized that a husband and wife relationship was pretty much over.  We have made a commitment to "do our best" to remain together as friends and sisters.  Of course, she is having difficulty adjusting, but, we are making some progress.  Only time will tell if we are able to make it work.  Fortunately, I have a wonderful support system in addition to her, and am very active in the Detroit Trans community and lead a support group.

ArleneTgirl, you're blessed, Hon; you really are!  Understanding "spouse," supportive social infrastructure, active in the Detroit T-Community.  You go, Girl!  I kinda envy you, but don't take that seriously.  My situation is the exact opposite:  Siberia ... allegorically speaking, of course. 

Keep on smilin', Hon!  Best to ya!  Hugs!   

I think it's great that you guys have opened up with each other and express the ideas of dating to one another. It's a huge step in any type of relationship. However, realistically you both are going to have to let go of that part of you where the title marriage titles like "wife" does not exists any more if you are going to continue with this dating process. Where you guys are more like best friends (which I'm sure to some degree, she already is your best friend) rather than an "ex". Best of luck!

Quote from: ArleneTgirl on July 10, 2009, 10:56:27 AM
Sharing experiences on this forum is good for the soul, so, i will definitely update my Forum Friends.  As far as juicey details, we shall see.  I'm not the kind of girl who keeps all those things a secret, but, I'm not very graphic either.  I consider myself a pretty conventional female.

I don't care about juicy secrets.  My interest is more along how the date itself goes.  Did you like the guy? Did he like you? Does he know that you started life in the wrong body? Does he care? Did he not have a clue?  What happens when he eventually finds out? etc

-- Galantha

No juicy details?  Lol, but seriously, I did mention him in my original post.  I was totally upfront with him about being a pre-op TS, still living with my spouse, although I am available. (may have been a little vague about my age, but, that's only being a female, he knows I'm in the 50 ish range)  He is a total gentleman, fit and attractive, and a bit smitten.  He was fun to talk to, and right after he kissed me, he asked if I kissed on the first date. (apparently/lol)  It was a very pleasant date and am looking forward to going out with him again.  He has since called me, and we will do it again, probably next week.  At present, it seems to be a nice safe relationship, but who knows.

Sounds great! -> I should have read your first post closer, my apologies.

Best of luck!
-- Galantha

I'm with Tekla on this one.  How many open relationships (which is essentially what you've got) actually last?  How many aren't infiltrated by jealousy or loneliness?  I've seen ONE work.  ONE that was based on don't-ask-don't-tell.  You think your wife's going to be fine watching you date men while she hangs out at home?  And what of your first sleepover?  That'll be an awkward breakfast.  If there's no more relationship, leave the relationship.

Quote from: Mister on July 10, 2009, 02:46:09 PM
I'm with Tekla on this one.  How many open relationships (which is essentially what you've got) actually last?  How many aren't infiltrated by jealousy or loneliness?  I've seen ONE work.  ONE that was based on don't-ask-don't-tell.  You think your wife's going to be fine watching you date men while she hangs out at home?  And what of your first sleepover?  That'll be an awkward breakfast.  If there's no more relationship, leave the relationship.

I kind of had the same thought.

You going out and her staying home - that's all well and good I suppose.

What happens when she goes out? You see her on the phone talking to a new person, maybe for hours at a time. And then she spends a lot of time in the bathroom getting all decked out for her date, perhaps putting on the sexy lingerie and the dress to kill for. Perhaps you get to meet the date beforehand as he comes in to wait for her, and then they are gone all night and she comes back early in the morning. Meanwhile you are left sitting at home with your imagination racing. What happens if she happens to get pregnant while ya'll are still married? The divorce judge may see that kid as YOUR responsibility.

And honestly, after being married for awhile you have to have some kind of feelings there for her that are going to get hammered. I know that this is all terribly far fetched, but you still need to think about it.

It does seem to be a better idea to go ahead and cut the cord now while ya'll are still getting along, and part as friends.

What happens if she happens to get pregnant while ya'll are still married? The divorce judge may will see that kid as YOUR responsibility.

Fixed it for you.