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The price of life

Started by lisagurl, July 07, 2009, 04:52:31 PM

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Miniar

Quote from: lisagurl on July 09, 2009, 08:08:37 PM
I understand Iceland is adding another Aluminum plant that will deplete Iceland's geothermal energy in the south in 70 years.

I see you don't have an understanding of what "geothermal energy" entails.
It's highly unlikely that the heat of the molten lava underneath Iceland can be "depleted" in the next 70 years.
Geothermal Energy is considered a "renewable energy source".

Also, I have to say:
Quote from: lisagurl on July 10, 2009, 01:42:53 PM
It is had to educate someone who believes that education is witchcraft or a western plot especially with an empty stomach and no clean water. They believe God will provide.
It should be interesting when you try to make a living.

That's an extremely racist thing to say.



"Everyone who has ever built anywhere a new heaven first found the power thereto in his own hell" - Nietzsche
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tekla

Wow.  There are times when I'm still mildly surprised that I can still be stunned.  But, there you have it.

What makes the Taliban powerful is the fact that people think they NEED military organizations like the Taliban.
Which would be so unlike, oh, China, or the USA?  Seems to me both think they need some pretty powerful military organizations, with very powerful weapons, and the ability to project that power anywhere in the world at any time.

the best entity for dealing with Pakistani tribespeople would be the Pakistani government. I am sure the government of Pakistan could be persuaded as to the soundness of this strategy
That would be the military junta that holds power in some parts of the country, oversaw the assassination of its chief rival to power, and has so little control over other areas that some parts of the country seem to be in a state of civil war.  But, the same government that has not only nuclear weapons, but delivery systems and pretty much hates us because they thing (truthfully to be sure) that we tend to side with India over them?  That government?  What little I am sure of is that its a hard road to convince a military junta in the midst of a civil war of anything resembling sharing power.

besides making sure they have the IDEA to actually DO this, would be to keep any would-be nuisances out of the way.
Like the Indian Army is to Pakistan, or like our army is in Afghanistan?

Remember, the original idea behind the CRIPS was to bring a sense of order to the streets in a part of the USA where there was NOT a valid or trained police force in the area.
They started out as what they are now, a capitalist organization set to control trade in a specific item, in this case, drugs.

It's kind of hard to stand up for yourself when the other person has an assault rifle and you have nothing, unless you have a death wish.
Or when you nation is under occupation (again) by an empire that uses an incredible array of weapons to subjugate the population?  It's hard to stand up to attack aircraft and helicopters with only some assault rifles too, but you know what?  They did it against the Soviet Union, and they are doing it against us too.

It's like they worship assault weapons or something.
Unlike, oh, say, us?

No, what would turn the tables on the Taliban would be to get the message to the people that true power comes from the heart, not from a weapon or any other outside source. The British police have mostly done without weapons for a long, long time.
Odd reading of history.  And wrong.  Power come from the barrel of a gun as Mao Zedong said.  And the Brit police now are armed.  And they never shied away from using weapons to subdue foreign populations in the name of empire, as they too, tried, unsuccessfully in Afghanistan.

My Saxon ancestors had brains, too, but they never thought of these ideas, either. They were too busy beating each other with swords and getting drunk. It took the human race thousands of years and a lot of shot-in-the-dark, chance-in-hell coincidences to even come up with these ideas at all.
Not true.  The Greeks and Romans had theories of power and government back when the Saxons were still living in caves.  Other older civilizations had similar concepts too, even before Greece and Rome.
FIGHT APATHY!, or don't...
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Michelle.

And the New York TSlimes wonders why its going bankrupt. What a crock of BS.
I would be more concerned about Iceland disappearing in the North Atlantic, aka Atlantis, in the next 70 years.

I would go so far as to give the Atlantis Theories more credit than Iceland is going to run out of geothermal within the next 70 years.
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tekla

There are similar arguments going on in Sonoma County about how much geothermal power can be tapped and for how long.  Nothing is forever, and power is never free.
FIGHT APATHY!, or don't...
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Michelle.

Kat...

My problem with the environmental types is that no solution you offer them is good enough. None.

I'm not about to go back to living a hunter-gatherer lifestyle.
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tekla

I'm not about to go back to living a hunter-gatherer lifestyle.

The current level of energy usage in the West (but with India and China not far behind) is not sustainable.  While I doubt it's going to regress back to that level, I'm pretty sure a lot of this stuff is going to be scaled back (and economic factors are already at work doing that).  Nothing is free, and nothing lasts forever - though nuclear waste comes close.
FIGHT APATHY!, or don't...
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Michelle.

Kat...

Speaking of nuclear waste. Well not actual waste. I'm thinking more along the lines of the water in the "open cycle" part of reactor.

Couldn't one pull geothermal heat out of the ground, steam I imagine, run it through a power plant and expel the same water back into the ground. The water wouldn't be very hot, but at least around 85 degrees.

That said water would than reheat itself by way of geothermal heat.
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tekla

It's a long way from 85 to boiling, and that could add to cooling the thermal vent, thus decreasing its lifetime.
FIGHT APATHY!, or don't...
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fae_reborn

Quote from: Sigma Prime on July 10, 2009, 08:03:35 PM
Or your people are more organized. Watch how these otters, here, approach that crocodile as a single, coordinated unit:

Otters will <not allowed> you up

It's like they are telepathically linked, isn't it?

Wow...Otters.  I'm so impressed.  ::)

Quote from: Sigma Prime on July 10, 2009, 08:03:35 PM
No, what would turn the tables on the Taliban would be to get the message to the people that true power comes from the heart, not from a weapon or any other outside source. The British police have mostly done without weapons for a long, long time.

While I'm all for peace and love, good luck getting that anti-weapon message to the people of countries where violence has been an every day occurrence for decades (and I'm not just talking about Central Asia here).  Sure, it could happen...but not for a long, long time.

Quote from: Sigma Prime on July 10, 2009, 08:03:35 PM
A simple idea can make a lot of change. I don't think it's ethnocentric to hold that sentiment.

Not when that idea originates from outside your own community, and is sometimes forced down your throat with the barrel of a gun, by, oh say, certain groups such as the Taliban.  Just look at the way they treated women.

Quote from: Sigma Prime on July 10, 2009, 08:03:35 PM
To tell you the truth, I think you were just trying to slander and defame me, and I think you're full of crap.

Wow...again, I'm so impressed.  You can't counter my argument with your so-called "knowledge" of these people that you have to resort to name calling.  Wonderful!

Quote from: Sigma Prime on July 10, 2009, 08:03:35 PM
BS. You probably thought they were a bunch of Arabs or Turks or something, or why in the heck would you call me a "racist." You don't sound like you know much about that part of the world. In fact, I don't think you know a whole lot about people who live in small, tribal communities, whereas my family actually COMES from a small, tribal community just a few miles north of where I am right now.

Please don't make assumptions in regard to my education.  Despite being an American, I do have a brain and I do exercise it.  I happen to know the difference between Arabs and Turks and Pashtun's, I don't just lump them all into one category and call them all "arabs" like some people.  Don't insult my intelligence and DON'T belittle me as if I were an infant.

If you can't play nice, then please leave.  I don't have anything more to say to you Sigma.  Good day.

Quote from: tekla on July 10, 2009, 08:41:03 PM
It's kind of hard to stand up for yourself when the other person has an assault rifle and you have nothing, unless you have a death wish.
Or when you nation is under occupation (again) by an empire that uses an incredible array of weapons to subjugate the population?  It's hard to stand up to attack aircraft and helicopters with only some assault rifles too, but you know what?  They did it against the Soviet Union, and they are doing it against us too.

Tekla, I was referencing when a tribal group or village is faced with the threats and intimidation of a local militia (i.e. thugs with guns in a few technicals), not during times of war involving "modern" weapons such as attack helicopters.
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tekla

good luck getting that anti-weapon message to the people of countries where violence has been an every day occurrence for decades (and I'm not just talking about Central Asia here).  Sure, it could happen

Good luck getting anyone from the United States to preach that message without everyone listening wetting their pants from laughing so hard.  Hell if that works we could perhaps get Keith Richards to take a strong anti-drug stance, and get Jenna Jameson out doing a modesty campaign.
FIGHT APATHY!, or don't...
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fae_reborn

Quote from: tekla on July 10, 2009, 09:36:48 PM
good luck getting that anti-weapon message to the people of countries where violence has been an every day occurrence for decades (and I'm not just talking about Central Asia here).  Sure, it could happen

Good luck getting anyone from the United States to preach that message without everyone listening wetting their pants from laughing so hard.  Hell if that works we could perhaps get Keith Richards to take a strong anti-drug stance, and get Jenna Jameson out doing a modesty campaign.

That's probably the last thing we need...the US preaching to the world what to do.  Oh wait, don't we do that already?  :eusa_wall:
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tekla

And if you don't listen, we'll just bomb you.
FIGHT APATHY!, or don't...
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Michelle.

DO AS WE SAY, NOT AS WE DO!!!
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Miniar

Quote from: lisagurl on July 10, 2009, 08:26:18 PM
Iceland Debates the Limits of Geothermal

http://greeninc.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/07/08/iceland-debates-the-limits-of-geothermal/

That's a blog, and there's no link to the original source of the news.
The debate we had here however, as covered by the local news, which I'm aware you can not access, is more in regards to whether or not to build another hydroelectric dam to support the "new" aluminum plant (it's not a new one actually but an extension to an existing one... can't even get that tidbit right).



"Everyone who has ever built anywhere a new heaven first found the power thereto in his own hell" - Nietzsche
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Sigma Prime

Quote from: Fae on July 10, 2009, 09:27:55 PMWow...Otters.  I'm so impressed.  ::)
I certainly am. I like them. They have gumption. Usually, that's all it takes to get the better of a bully.

QuoteWhile I'm all for peace and love, good luck getting that anti-weapon message to the people of countries where violence has been an every day occurrence for decades (and I'm not just talking about Central Asia here).  Sure, it could happen...but not for a long, long time.
That was not the point. You were insisting that these tribespeople should submit to these Taliban thugs unless they really do have a death wish, and the basis of your argument was that the Taliban has assault weapons. Now, although it would be ridiculous for these tribespeople to take on the full brunt of the Taliban without the help of an adequate military (that is a job for the Pakistani government, which has had some late successes against the Taliban), you could take on one jeep and a couple of thugs with a bag of marbles and a few young men who are aware of the fact that these thugs can't aim for squat. If this were happening to them all over the Tribal Belt, the Taliban would end up being stretched so thin that the Pakistani government could mop them up quite handily. After all, America won its independence from the British precisely because the British had too many things on their plate at the time.

QuoteNot when that idea originates from outside your own community, and is sometimes forced down your throat with the barrel of a gun, by, oh say, certain groups such as the Taliban.  Just look at the way they treated women.
Okay, this is getting silly.

Notion #1: an oppressive regime (ie, the Taliban) who really is forcing a particular lifestyle down people's throats. You see, I don't think it's very proper to cross our arms and take no action at all while these creeps are terrorizing the countryside.

Notion #2: suggesting to the Pakistani government that it would be really useful to encourage better lines of communication between the various people who inhabit their Tribal Belt, and have a little bit of faith in their willingness to act in their own defense when confronted with a relatively small group of thugs who have made the mistake of believing that they are the almighty middle-finger of God just because they have a bunch of assault weapons. You see, I think that this would be a much better airing for the power of democracy and self-rule than that horrid business in Iraq.

QuotePlease don't make assumptions in regard to my education.  Despite being an American, I do have a brain and I do exercise it.  I happen to know the difference between Arabs and Turks and Pashtun's, I don't just lump them all into one category and call them all "arabs" like some people.  Don't insult my intelligence and DON'T belittle me as if I were an infant.
Excuse me. I am a little bit accustomed, on this forum, to dealing with people who believe that I should bow to their divine knowledge in things like molecular biochemistry and neuroscience just because they worked for the electric company for a while. I was wrong to confuse you with them, and I apologize.

However, I think that you still owe me an apology for calling me a "racist." Although you did soften your accusation of me being "ethnocentric," and I recognize that, I'm still feeling very stung. Those same two were trying to color me as racist a while ago, and I'm very up in arms over that subject.
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tekla

Notion #1: an oppressive regime (ie, the Taliban, the occupying American Empire) who really is forcing a particular lifestyle down people's throats.

There, fixed it for you.

And what makes you think they want a democracy?  Nothing I've ever seen.  They might start by not killing the other people running for office I guess, sort of as a start. 
FIGHT APATHY!, or don't...
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Sigma Prime

Quote from: tekla on July 11, 2009, 11:07:50 AM
Notion #1: an oppressive regime (ie, the Taliban, the occupying American Empire) who really is forcing a particular lifestyle down people's throats.

There, fixed it for you.
On that note, the Northern Alliance could be taught to handle their affairs in Afghanistan in quite the same way. By building up self-sufficiency and self-confidence among the various tribes in Afghanistan, they could leave much more of their resources available for fighting against their enemy. Their enemy is not the tribespeople of Afghanistan. Those are the good guys, and they would be perfectly capable of largely handling their own affairs if someone just told them that they can and should. The way they're doing things right now, even a big feminist organization in Afghanistan is saying they miss the Taliban. Why, huh? Maybe because the Northern Alliance is using too many strong-arm tactics and doing too little to build up a truly functioning, sustainable government, which is largely a semi-decentralized and self-sustaining organism.
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tekla

Where exactly in Afghan history do you find any tradition of this?
FIGHT APATHY!, or don't...
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Sigma Prime

Quote from: tekla on July 11, 2009, 11:36:45 AM
Where exactly in Afghan history do you find any tradition of this?
Speaking in riddles won't save you.

Now, tell us all about how Pakistan is ruled by a military junta. Go ahead, daffodil. You know, Pakistan really isn't as much of a basket case as you are making it out to be. Things really aren't all that much different there from how they are here. You see these pictures of the most troubled parts of their country, but the pictures you will not see on the news are the ones that show a bunch of Pakistani teenagers who look for all the world like New Yorkers. The media makes them look so different, but they are truly the same flesh-and-blood kinds of people. Their Tribal Belt isn't their whole country. The people who live in the Tribal Belt, though, have the same genes as those people who live in their cities, being slowly poisoned to death by the same kind of air pollution they have in Los Angeles. Their government has also had a few successes of late in their war with the Taliban.

You guys accuse me of being racist and ethnocentric when I say the kinds of things about the people in their Tribal Belt that I would say about similar groups of people in my own country, who are of the same ethnicity as myself. You have no grounds for making this accusation at all. You are making up excuses to slur and slander my name, and you ought to be ashamed of yourselves. You, on the other hand, really are saying things that are incredibly racist, bigoted, and ethnocentric. You are treating them as if their religion makes their culture inferior, you and Lisa. You are religious bigots. Shame on you. Not only do you lack the grounds to call me "ethnocentric" or "racist," but you are not even in any position to make this sort of accusation. Quit trying to slur and slander my name just because I call you out on your BS.
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