Republicans Will Be Toast in 2010 If the Dems Pass Health Reform, and They Know It
By Adele M. Stan, AlterNet. Posted July 21, 2009.

http://www.alternet.org/politics/141440/republicans_will_be_toast_in_2010_if_the_dems_pass_health_reform%2C_and_they_know_it/

If President Barack Obama succeeds in signing a major health care reform bill into law -- one that provides a public plan for people currently priced out of the system -- he will achieve what at least three presidents before him had hoped for, and failed to do. And he will likely deprive the Republican minority in Congress from anything approaching a comeback in the 2010 midterm elections.

However, if health care reform does not pass early in Obama's term, the Democrats will likely face midterm elections amid rising unemployment figures with a record of having passed legislation characterized as "bailouts" for megabanks and large corporations -- bills whose benefits to the economy have little impact on the person who has already lost a job.  So GOP leaders are focused like a laser beam on stopping health-care reform in its tracks.

Most likely true.  He needs to pass at this point whatever and come back for more, and more and more in the next three years.

2010 is too soon and any old bill will not fix the problems. He would make a big mistake to sign something that creates more problems. 2012 will be the measure of his abilities. But still the Republicans have not put anything better forward.

Quote from: lisagurl on July 21, 2009, 10:29:25 AM
2010 is too soon and any old bill will not fix the problems. He would make a big mistake to sign something that creates more problems. 2012 will be the measure of his abilities. But still the Republicans have not put anything better forward.

If every bill that was passed has THAT as its basis, Lisa, not "to sign something that creates more problems," then there would be no legislation about anything ever. Politics is the implementation of the possible and as tekla pointed out "coming back later for more and more and more."

The current system is hardly one that doesn't "create more and more problems" now is it? 

QuoteThe current system is hardly one that doesn't "create more and more problems" now is it? 

It is also unsustainable. We will not last as long as Rome.

I mean first of all, bill or no bill, I don't see where the 'Pubs are going to be together enough by next year to really do an election.

They need to try to get back some semblance of the Senate, though I think that their current tactics are going to be something that they will rue the day they started them, but the House is not going to change (259-175), even with a radical shift that I don't see happening at any rate.  The 'Pubs need to win more seats than are in play.

In the Senate, well, the inside politics deal sees about 7 that might be up for grabs, and 4 of those are R now, so it could turn out that the Dems have even more seats in the Senate next time round.

This is a very difficult political situation.  They can't pass a health care bill without either a tax increase or a deficit increase; and either one will hurt the Dems on the right flank in 2010.  Plus, not passing universal, one-payer healthcare will hurt the Dems on the left flank.

I'm sorry to say that I expect the Republicans to pick up seats in 2010.  The opposition party always picks up seats in the midterm election anyway.

Some sure, 70 in the House, not likely.  Even split on the Senate is no change.

I'm not even thinking about the political implications of Health care Reform. The big picture as I see it isn't who wins in 2010 or 2012, but if Health care Reform isn't passed now, how much longer is the issue going to be ignored?

And one more thing, Obama won a landslide, the senate is 60% democrat, and the house is overwhelmingly not-conservative. Obama needs to shove Universal Health Care down Americas throat and not try to compromise with republicans.

Quote from: Kayla on July 27, 2009, 03:42:15 AM
I'm not even thinking about the political implications of Health care Reform. The big picture as I see it isn't who wins in 2010 or 2012, but if Health care Reform isn't passed now, how much longer is the issue going to be ignored?

And one more thing, Obama won a landslide, the senate is 60% democrat, and the house is overwhelmingly not-conservative. Obama needs to shove Universal Health Care down Americas throat and not try to compromise with republicans.

A lot of the problem isn't that the Pubs can actually stop it, it's that Dems can actually stop it. The Blue Dogs and others are as resistant as the Pubs.

It's been what? 40 years or more since any real and substantial effort to change something/anything about American health care has even got this close.  I don't expect changes overnight, or even anything really major the first time around.

QuoteThe Blue Dogs and others are as resistant as the Pubs.

They all eat from the same trough. It is the money people that will get their way in the end  AMA, Big PHARMA, Big Insurance.

Quote from: Nichole on July 27, 2009, 09:33:16 AM
A lot of the problem isn't that the Pubs can actually stop it, it's that Dems can actually stop it. The Blue Dogs and others are as resistant as the Pubs.

True, I tend to overlook subtle things like that. But what I meant by saying what I said is if it isn't passed now, will the American government ignore the issue for another 16 years like they did with Hillary and her health care proposals?

QuoteBut what I meant by saying what I said is if it isn't passed now

They need something worth while to pass. They have not even scratched the surface. Nothing is better than what they now have. The U.S. spends 146 billion each year on obese related health care. That is something that is personally correctable. If we are going to charge everyone then we expect everyone to also be responsible. Those that take advantage of the system and are not responsible should pay more.

OMG, hell must have frozen over!!!

I find myself in almost complete agreement with Lisa.

Quote from: lisagurl on July 27, 2009, 06:55:33 PM
They need something worth while to pass. They have not even scratched the surface. Nothing is better than what they now have. The U.S. spends 146 billion each year on obese related health care. That is something that is personally correctable. If we are going to charge everyone then we expect everyone to also be responsible. Those that take advantage of the system and are not responsible should pay more.

But keeping these private for profit health insurance agencies are the problem. America spends more money per person on health care than any other industrialized nation. These insurance agencies make money by raising premiums, canceling clients who aren't profitable, and denying coverage. That's why we spend more money, and a feel good government option isn't going to erase the larger problem, and that problem is things like cancer, injuries, and diseases shouldn't turn profit.

But I'll give it to you, it is something. I just feel with Universal Health Care proving its effectiveness across the world, we shouldn't be afraid to tread in these waters.

QuoteI just feel with Universal Health Care proving its effectiveness across the world, we shouldn't be afraid to tread in these waters.

But you also know that Universal Health Care is also rationed.

They also do not have a system that corruption that allows the big corporations to continully cause bad health of the citizens.

They need to address the problems first.

1. Pay for performance. In other words you pay only if the doctor helps your problem.
2. Have a rating of doctors so the public can choose one that has good odds of not doing malpractice.
3. Make insurance non profit like electric coops.
4. Fix the FDA, as it stands now they work for the drug companies.
5. Do away with Medicare and Medicaid replace them with non profit coops funded with the same FICA money.
6. Take the power away from the AMA to control medical schools.
7. Control the pay of specialists to the same level as general practitioners.
8. Get the lawyers and legal system out of the medical business. Let a judging panel decide disability payments for people injured by doctors.

9. Limit the drug companies spending on marketing, lobbying and doctor rewards. Fix the drug research testing problems, require all raw data and let public scientists analyze it.
10. Support well care and charge people for poor health practices. Smoking, over weight, drugs, etc.

Quote from: lisagurl on July 28, 2009, 08:57:32 AM
But you also know that Universal Health Care is also rationed.

True, any time needs (and I mean needs and not wants) exceed resources, there will be rationing. However to ration to those who have the most money, especially considering the drastic wealth and income disparity in this country, creates too unfair a burden for the poor.

Quote from: lisagurl on July 28, 2009, 08:57:32 AM
4. Fix the FDA, as it stands now they work for the drug companies.

9. Limit the drug companies spending on marketing, lobbying and doctor rewards.

Yeah, this is way too true. If you've ever seen Sicko, the one scene with all the congressmen who voted on the health bill, and telling you how much they were paid by the pharmaceutical industry was disturbing. They all made more for signing that bill then I have made thus far in my life.