I think you are making a mountain out of a mole hill. Topics drift, just something that happens. If you don't want to talk about something, just don't talk about it. So far things have seemed rather innocuous with no obligation to justify anything.

I don't think anyone said you were a freak did they? If this is the case then please feel free to notify us mods and we will deal with it..

I am actually confused about the purpose of your original topic. On one hand you seemed to be asking what people thought of being visibly gender variant as you were not sure how to deal with it e.g. looking like a woman with facial hair etc. Yet on the other hand you said you are totally ok with how you are and don't care how others see you. So the original question was kind of redundant.

Or was the original question simply "how well do you deal with your visible gender variance?" 

I'm going to apologise for not being so distant and actually having emotions for one thing, b/c apparently I should.

I was saying that I'm fine with who I am, I just need to have some opinions on what others here would think of basically, a female with male facial hair (shaved or not) and a female who doesn't shave her legs. That's all i wanted to know.

And I never got any answers, I just got "be yourself" which is NOT what I wanted. The rest of the world, who actually sees me is not going to say that, so it's not practical. That's all I wanted.

So yeah, I'm not starting a fight or something, so I left this thread be to be derailed by a question that should have been asked in private. It's not my problem if this is hijacked by religious talk, b/c it was.

I should have known to not ask the question in the first place.

QuoteI was saying that I'm fine with who I am, I just need to have some opinions on what others here would think of basically, a female with male facial hair (shaved or not) and a female who doesn't shave her legs. That's all i wanted to know.

hi Raye.
I would just think the woman had some kind of hormonal issue if she had male facial hair. My assumption would probably be that she wasn't thrilled with having it. But I might also wonder if she was ftm. I wouldn't think anything about the unshaved legs. I only shaved them on rare occasions when I was a woman (and then only in situations where I would have to endure derogatory comments if I didn't). It always seemed to me that women shaved their legs because people pointed if they didn't.

Personally, I am amused by all the shaving women feel constrained to do. I don't care whether they do or don't. As a male-bodied androgyne, I shaved my face for thirteen years--and then gave up. It's easier for me to endure people telling me they don't like beards than having them tell me I need a shave. Indeed, fewer people talk about beards than complained about hair on my face when I was clean shaven.

My pony tail gets comments, but I like it. It is easy to care for. I've considered why I like it, but have no single answer. The pony tail will stay--until I change my mind.

My purse gets few comments. It works in my life. I'm keeping it.

I was taught growing up that religion includes everything in life, excludes nothing. I will talk religion at the drop of a hat. I am fascinated by the beliefs, concepts, and traditions that govern and explain our lives. Whether or not we call it a religion, each of us chooses a way of living. I'd advocate a conscious and examined choice, but rarely would argue with the content of that choice as long as it doesn't include something like genocide. As many of you know, I do adhere to a minority religion. Nuff said for now.

Shabbat shalom,
S

Maybe you are not getting much response as most of us are gender variant in some way? We have people that want to look like women with beards, people that want no gender tells, bigenders, gender queer, gender subversives... what you have described is not such a weird thing in the present company.

Personally I don't see many women with facial hair, so it would attract a look just because I don't see it much. Apart from that I might think "love those Euro women  ".

Quote from: Raye on July 09, 2009, 06:41:33 PM
I don't know. I just started this thread for something to say, I had no idea it would turn into this, and I'm leaving it be. I avoid this kind of thing because I'm sick of hearing about it tbh. I've been judged enough by my "own" on both sides.

In a way, this is part of the androgyne experience. We don't have "our own" -- rather, we're stuck somewhere in between. There have been a couple of threads about this phenomenon in the past, and it looks like there are several of us who are like this in general, not just with our gender.

Quote
What i got from this thread is:
I'm a freak, all agree but me
I'm apparently ok with this, and need to tell ppl to bug off

Well, in the sense that all of us are 'freaks', yes. You do seem to be coping with it, which is good to hear -- the more of such people we have here the easier it is for newcomers to start coping with their own 'freakiness'. There will always be people who are further in their self-exploration and self-acceptance, and always people who are not quite as far. The former can hopefully share their experiences and gain new insight from yours, and the latter are desperately in need of a role model.

Quote
I only wanted some advice/opinions on the hair thing, I NEVER wanted this to get into a religion discussion- which has NO PLACE in this thread.

Oh yes, let's forget religion for a moment and get back to the hair thing. The biggest issue with hair for me is not the hair I have on my chin or legs, it's the hair I no longer have on my forehead. Not starting to use the medication the moment it became available is really the biggest regret I have about my years in denial. Oh well, perhaps one of these years they get the hair follicle cloning techniques affordable enough that this can be fixed. Meanwhile, if someone would care to swap a full head of hair (preferably blonde) for a pair of used testicles feel free to contact me.

With regard to the other hairs, I'm considering laser for my beard pretty seriously. This is not because I'm particularly dysphoric about it but rather because it's such a clear male trait, and what with all the other male markers getting rid of this one would change my looks just a little bit towards the centre. If I had an otherwise-female-looking body I think I wouldn't bother shaving -- although never having been in that situation I cannot know for certain. But I seriously think I wouldn't. Of course, trimming the beard to look good is another matter entirely...

  Nfr

Quote from: Raye on July 09, 2009, 07:57:26 PM
so I left this thread be to be derailed by a question that should have been asked in private. It's not my problem if this is hijacked by religious talk, b/c it was.

Happens a lot in this forum, apparently androgynes have a problem staying on ...... hey, bright shiny things!

Seriously, don't let it get to you. Stick around and enjoy the lunacy. And there is no such animal as an average androgye. We're all different. Some of the people here are very different 

Ooops, looks like we(I) scared Raye off 

They were a might delicate...

Quote from: riven_one on July 15, 2009, 08:24:17 PM
Some of the people here are very different 

In the words of my wife: "You're weird."

I also discovered at age 60, that I have the dreamy kind of ADD. I knew my brain was different, but now I had a name for it--other than lazy, crazy, and stupid. It means that in conversations, I'm always talking about a topic the others finished five minutes earlier, or one for which the others can see no connection. But I digress--frequently.

I do hope Raye at least lurks. I do think that putting "Christian" in the profile was an invitation to talk. Among my closest and oldest friends are two Catholic priests and a pastoral associate, two Episcopal priests, three UCC ministers, a Baptist minister, and a Unitarian poet/baker/ex-programmer. Our lives are centered around religion and its applications to life, the universe, and everything. It is a common bond that surmounts all the differences in the content of our faiths.

My late father-in-law was one who felt religion was a private matter. He once asked his daughter and me if we felt our friendships meant that the gas chambers would be swept clean before we were forced in them. In the words of Rodney King: "People, I just want to say, you know, can we all get along? Can we get along? Can we stop making it, making it horrible for the older people and the kids?...It's just not right. It's not right. It's not, it's not going to change anything. We'll, we'll get our justice....Please, we can get along here. We all can get along. I mean, we're all stuck here for a while. Let's try to work it out. Let's try to beat it. Let's try to beat it. Let's try to work it out." I want justice for all, and I want to get along with those who are not weird in the same way I am.

Now, what were we talking about?
S

Your are weird! 

I think we were talking about "justice for all", the album by Metallica. I really liked it.

I really like the thought of holy men of different faiths getting together and talking shop. I think it is the way things should be.

I'm currently reading a book about a guy that tried to live by what the bible literally says for a year. It is very amusing but facinating. I am intrigued by the way he, as an athiest, actually finds a lot of joy in many of the things he follows and the reactions of those around him.

Quote from: Nicky on July 16, 2009, 05:49:46 PM
I'm currently reading a book about a guy that tried to live by what the bible literally says for a year. It is very amusing but facinating. I am intrigued by the way he, as an athiest, actually finds a lot of joy in many of the things he follows and the reactions of those around him.

I read that book. A fascinating experiment! Not sure I have the discipline (or desire) to do that.

Z

Quote from: Simone Louise on July 16, 2009, 04:29:45 PM
I'm always talking about a topic the others finished five minutes earlier, or one for which the others can see no connection.

Sounds like right brain dominance to me In fact, I was reading in USA today that the way to succeed in our new "jobless" world is to be able to use both the left and right halves of our brains at the same time. The left brained people (logical, methodical) are doomed because their jobs (IT, accounting) are going overseas. Meanwhile, the right brained people (artsy fartsy, creative) will succeed because those skills are in demand.

I'd say that you are set!  and i'm doomed    <--left brain person

Funny, I'm pretty right brained and have found that the my lack of method has tripped me up in career type success.

As for christian androgynes, we got a few jewish ones, some hindus and buddhists and a muslim - might as well gather some christians. Better than all that neo-pagan pappery.

Quote from: Nicky on July 08, 2009, 03:44:36 PM
What's is it like being a christian androgyne? A rare breed of a rare breed.

as a teen I heard a lot of conflicting messages relating to people who were different
but the strongest message was "I Know I'm somebody 'cause God does not make Junk"
and while I searched for meaning relating to my medical crap (brain tumor) I realised that gods journey for me was special and that my gender journey is an important part of gods plan for me but I also know it won't be easy but everytime I seriously question if what I'm doing is gods work I'll hear something small at church about being yourself and I know that it is gods will for me although it is scary at times.  hope that doesn't sound preachy

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Post Merge: July 24, 2009, 09:44:51 AM

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sorry i went on the religious path rather then the hair issue
for me hair is a strange topic I'm growing my hair long eventualy have it cut very fem but i also have a thick beard that I like
I'm thinking i'd like to get rid of my chest/leg hair and not sure about arm hair yet
just try to find whats right for you

I have to get my hair cut soon, I reckon I want to go for a sort of flapper haircut - but one of the looser wavier sort. Seems to make sense, when the flappers came about the look was regarded as an androgynous style encouraging the look to be boyish - and I just felt I would take it the other way.

Quote from: Pica Pica on July 25, 2009, 08:26:02 AM
I have to get my hair cut soon, I reckon I want to go for a sort of flapper haircut - but one of the looser wavier sort. Seems to make sense, when the flappers came about the look was regarded as an androgynous style encouraging the look to be boyish - and I just felt I would take it the other way.

gee, thanks for hijacking the thread again with the flapper haircuts. i'm just gonna go get a soda now b/c that makes me so darn thirsty.

-ell

Interesting thread! I like the way it wanders around. 

As for hair, before I started to question my gender identity I used to shave my head, as I found it the best way to disguise the fact that my hair had decided to leave the top of my head and move to my ears. Don't laugh kids, it will happen to you too!!

Since I have started to find my true self however, I have started to shave the rest of myself, and let the head regain it's thatch.  Once it is a decent length I will decide on a style, a short bob is looking likely at this stage.  I have realised it will be close to what the kids we called "Sharpies" wore in the mid 60's  in this part of Australia.

  We didn't even have any idea Androgyny existed, but looking back I can see I was unconsciously trying for this look.  I can remember a friends mother remarking that I would make a good girl.  I can also remember being confused at my reaction , as I was both offended and pleased at the same time.  It is a pity I didn't follow this up at the time as it would have saved a lot of grief for many years.